After having to pull another Brexit thread this morning, decided it would be easier just to start a new one rather than waste time tidying the other one up. It's a good opportunity to start afresh, and draw a line in the sand. The previous approach of taking a hands-off approach to moderating these threads isn't really working, as the same groups of posters keep turning the threads to shit. Let's keep the discussion civil and debate things sensibly, otherwise you'll be removed from the thread and potentially banned from the forum completely. This applies to all the political threads in here. Report anyone that you feel is trolling or being unnecessarily anatagonistic so that we can deal with it rather than derailing threads with personal arguments. It's kind of the last throw of the dice this, so if this doesn't work we may just bin the political forum off completely. Cheers.
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Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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blueinsa
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Time to put this to bed one way or the other.
Go back to the country with a fully legally binding referendum which will ask do we leave the EU with no deal as its clear that one cant be agreed or do we go all in on membership, adopt the Euro the lot.
Anything else prolongs the arguments and just kicks the proverbial can down the road with the country arguing the toss over the issue for ever.
Whatever the result, even if its won by 1 single vote we get on with and do.
The time of fence sitting and fudging has to be over.
Go back to the country with a fully legally binding referendum which will ask do we leave the EU with no deal as its clear that one cant be agreed or do we go all in on membership, adopt the Euro the lot.
Anything else prolongs the arguments and just kicks the proverbial can down the road with the country arguing the toss over the issue for ever.
Whatever the result, even if its won by 1 single vote we get on with and do.
The time of fence sitting and fudging has to be over.
So why should the losers in a close vote accept the result if it wasn't last time!Time to put this to bed one way or the other.
Go back to the country with a fully legally binding referendum which will ask do we leave the EU with no deal as its clear that one cant be agreed or do we go all in on membership, adopt the Euro the lot.
Anything else prolongs the arguments and just kicks the proverbial can down the road with the country arguing the toss over the issue for ever.
Whatever the result, even if its won by 1 single vote we get on with and do.
The time of fence sitting and fudging has to be over.
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blueinsa
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So why should the losers in a close vote accept the result if it wasn't last time!
Simple.
Democracy.
I am a leave voter btw dismayed that we have not left yet.
Metal Biker
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Another new brexit thread, another new brexit position.
We stay in. Simple as that. I still advocate leaving the EU, still hold the same criticisms that these recent appointments exacerbate that stance, and will hope our Parliament/Government returns to this issue of membership rather than just letting it slide.
It's clear this current, inept group of politicians cannot agree on what's best for the country and have put party politics ahead of reaching a workable conclusion.
At least they know not everyone is satisfied with our membership terms and dismissing them as "loonies and fruitcakes" doesn't work anymore.
We stay in. Simple as that. I still advocate leaving the EU, still hold the same criticisms that these recent appointments exacerbate that stance, and will hope our Parliament/Government returns to this issue of membership rather than just letting it slide.
It's clear this current, inept group of politicians cannot agree on what's best for the country and have put party politics ahead of reaching a workable conclusion.
At least they know not everyone is satisfied with our membership terms and dismissing them as "loonies and fruitcakes" doesn't work anymore.
What happened to democracy at the last vote. It's more to do with disgraceful MPs accepting then renegading on that promise. Democracy needs politicians as much as the public to do what there paid to do. I see both sides but I for one will no longer vote in an institution that is not democraticSimple.
Democracy.
I am a leave voter btw dismayed that we have not left yet.
west didsblue
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Agree there is not a deal that would be acceptable to anything like a majority, but then neither is No Deal or All In. Maintaining the status quo has got to be an option which I understand has the inherent risks of further integration, however I believe those risks are overblown by many of the Leavers. On the other hand, I believe going for a No Deal exit would cause economic chaos and would eventually lead us to rejoining on worse terms than we have now.Time to put this to bed one way or the other.
Go back to the country with a fully legally binding referendum which will ask do we leave the EU with no deal as its clear that one cant be agreed or do we go all in on membership, adopt the Euro the lot.
Anything else prolongs the arguments and just kicks the proverbial can down the road with the country arguing the toss over the issue for ever.
Whatever the result, even if its won by 1 single vote we get on with and do.
The time of fence sitting and fudging has to be over.
Chris in London
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Time to put this to bed one way or the other.
Go back to the country with a fully legally binding referendum which will ask do we leave the EU with no deal as its clear that one cant be agreed or do we go all in on membership, adopt the Euro the lot.
Anything else prolongs the arguments and just kicks the proverbial can down the road with the country arguing the toss over the issue for ever.
Whatever the result, even if its won by 1 single vote we get on with and do.
The time of fence sitting and fudging has to be over.
That isn't possible. We can't have a legally binding referendum that commits us to joining say the Euro or the Schengen group because the rest of the EU might not have us. Perhaps unlikely, but the possibility that they wouldn't means any referendum couldn't be binding. You are suggesting Parliament binds us to something that isn't within the UK's ability to deliver unilaterally.
What you could have is a simple revoke A50 & maintain status quo v No deal Brexit. There is no reason why a referendum on those terms couldn't be binding as they are both on purely UK terms. neither, unlike joining the Euro, say, is within the gift of the EU.
So why should the losers in a close vote accept the result if it wasn't last time!
Democracy is always ongoing.
The Scottish Independence movement haven’t given up and neither would Vote Leave, had they lost in 2016.
I do agree with @blueinsa that this needs putting to bed now one way or another.
I’m not sure I agree giving up our opt outs or currency is a smart move at this stage, if we’re having another referendum though.
That isn't possible. We can't have a legally binding referendum that commits us to joining say the Euro or the Schengen group because the rest of the EU might not have us. Perhaps unlikely, but the possibility that they wouldn't means any referendum couldn't be binding. You are suggesting Parliament binds us to something that isn't within the UK's ability to deliver unilaterally.
What you could have is a simple revoke A50 & maintain status quo v No deal Brexit. There is no reason why a referendum on those terms couldn't be binding as they are both on purely UK terms. neither, unlike joining the Euro, say, is within the gift of the EU.
Surely we’d get them to agree to respecting the result first?
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blueinsa
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What happened to democracy at the last vote. It's more to do with disgraceful MPs accepting then renegading on that promise. Democracy needs politicians as much as the public to do what there paid to do. I see both sides but I for one will no longer vote in an institution that is not democratic
Agree completely that the electorate has been let down badly by parliament who if they never had any intentions of pushing brexit through and i dont believe they genuinely ever had, shouldn't have agreed to the ref or its question in the first place.
In doing so they effectively handed their parliamentary sovereignty we keep hearing about over to the electorate and are now refusing to honour their promise.
Get the second ref done with the question i have put and if we vote to go all in with the EU then so be it.
I think i would prefer to be governed from Berlin or Paris right now than Westminster anyway as they are utterly useless and contemptible right across the parties.
Gareth Barry Conlon
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@Ric can we have a second vote plese?
Only if we're able to agree on what the options should be!
bluethrunthru
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will be tough to put it to bed when people swallow this twaddle though - we are going to have to leave and suffer for them to actually get it. On 5Live this morning Nicky Campbell was in Suffolk talking to Tories there who cheerfully admit it could be 5 years or more of disruption and pain but " we have to deliver Brexit " WTF ??
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blueinsa
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Only if we're able to agree on what the options should be!
Leave with a deal, leave with no deal, status quo and full integration with the EU.
Effectively 2 options for both sides to plump for.
Metal Biker
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Something along the lines of what the outcome should be, imo.Only if we're able to agree on what the options should be!
Do we stay in indefinitely.
Stay in for the time being by revoking.
Press on with no deal brexit in October and leave.
Those would be my options.
BobKowalski
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Reports that Ireland set to publicly acknowledge for first time need for some checks in or around border in no-deal Brexit. This isn’t going to end well.
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