This is BS. There is only one remain option which is the EU as it currently is. We either remain on our current deal or we dont. There is no 'full integration' to decide on. You're just projecting the issues of leave on to remain.
Remain is a simple concept and 100% deliverable with zero issues.
Leaving is a mass of technical problems with a miriad of options/solutions none of which produce a fully satisfactory outcome.
Disagree with the inevitable break up. The indyref was 55:45 in favour of remain, a much bigger majority than Brexit. The SNP are in power for Scottish domestic reasons not because a majority wants independence.
I see it as a Union originally created by a mix of English force majeure and corruption, so even though I would favour its retention as a modern political union I'm not sure there's much to be sentimental about.
Allow me to redirect my as yet unanswered question to you since you posted Jezzer's email (without comment)Dear Rascal,
.....Whoever becomes the new Prime Minister should have the confidence to put their deal, or No Deal, back to the people in a public vote.
In those circumstances, I want to make it clear that Labour would campaign for Remain against either No Deal or a Tory deal that does not protect the economy and jobs....
Jeremy Corbyn
It's not the Tories in general I'm blaming, it's the government (May and her team of ministers). Even if they did enough just to get the support of their own MPs, Brexit would be done. Instead she did exactly what she would have done had she increased her majority in 2017. Following that election where the Tories lost seats, it was clear that the government needed cross party support to get Brexit over the line. They didn't even try and just presented their deal as a fait accompli and tried to bulldoze it through parliament.
It is their goal made achievable by Brexit.The SNP as a nationalist party are in power to deliver independence its that simple.
It is their only goal.
So he wishes to become leader, re-negotiate a deal, then vote against his own deal in a referendum in order to Remain. Winner.Allow me to redirect my as yet unanswered question to you since you posted Jezzer's email (without comment)
"So if in the unlikely event Labour won a snap election and then agreed a Brexit deal with the EU, they would put it to a second referendum with the alternative of Remain?" (Presumably the Laboury Part wouldn't campaign for Remain in those circumstances)
True or false?
Own your choice.
I always thought the Act of Union in 1707 was something that happened as an eventual consequence of the Union of the Crowns 100 years earlier when the Scottish King inherited the English throne.I see it as a Union originally created by a mix of English force majeure and corruption, so even though I would favour its retention as a modern political union I'm not sure there's much to be sentimental about.
The SNP as a nationalist party are in power to deliver independence its that simple.
It is their only goal.
It is their goal made achievable by Brexit.
Without Brexit there was nothing to suggest a shift in the views of the population from the 55:45 in favour of the union.
I think you're mistaking me for someone who has any time for the SNP. I don't, I'm a Unionist and think of them in the same way as I think of any other myopic nationalists from whatever country. Whilst you're right that they will keep on going, without Brexit I don't believe thaey would have had a chance of getting what they actually say they want. I agree with Bob's post, it's more about power for them.My point is brexit or no brexit they will not stop and they will keep going until they have got their independence.
I've no issue with that, just the fact they seem a tad hypocritical in their stance.
Blaming brexit or a majority of the rest of the electorate split across all 4 nations that make up the UK is not on imo.
As im continually told, own my choice on brexit which i do but then so too should the SNP on their own independence along with the accusations of staggering hypocrisy given their differing stance on them both.
Why does no politician have the position (or do they), that in view of the Commons rejecting the WA and being against No Deal, that "Revoke A50+continue to look for a workable Brexit" is an option.
It matches those who claim that democracy (the referendum) must be upheld, although i think a lot of the voices for that are claiming a specific meaning of democracy and demanding that others agree to it.
It acknowledges the impasse we are in, and fudges a way out of it.
It does not in and of itself preclude activating A50 at a later date without referendum.
There can be a progress report on a regular basis.
It's a long term project, i know, as it needs the Irish border sorting out, but I think it would pass overwhelmingly in the HoC.
I simply posted the email, as nobody else had.Allow me to redirect my as yet unanswered question to you since you posted Jezzer's email (without comment)
"So if in the unlikely event Labour won a snap election and then agreed a Brexit deal with the EU, they would put it to a second referendum with the alternative of Remain?" (Presumably the Laboury Part wouldn't campaign for Remain in those circumstances)
True or false?
My understanding of the ECJ ruling about the right of the UK to revoke A50 was contingent on us meaning it and not just for us to use as a means of delaying our exit. If that was our stated aim there is the possibility that the EU could reject our revocation and effectively chuck us out. I don't think that would happen but if they're as sick of the uncertainty as we are you never know.Why does no politician have the position (or do they), that in view of the Commons rejecting the WA and being against No Deal, that "Revoke A50+continue to look for a workable Brexit" is an option.
It matches those who claim that democracy (the referendum) must be upheld, although i think a lot of the voices for that are claiming a specific meaning of democracy and demanding that others agree to it.
It acknowledges the impasse we are in, and fudges a way out of it.
It does not in and of itself preclude activating A50 at a later date without referendum.
There can be a progress report on a regular basis.
It's a long term project, i know, as it needs the Irish border sorting out, but I think it would pass overwhelmingly in the HoC.
I think you're mistaking me for someone who has any time for the SNP.
They don’t have the balls to revoke.I dont although i do think @BobKowalski looks at them through misty eyes at times ;-)
I too am a unionist and we differ in that i dont agree with the way brexit which the UK voted for should be used by the SNP as an excuse for what they want anyway and nor should remain supporters blame leave voters.
If the SNP and Scots vote for their own independence they can do so and own it as the rest of us wont be having any say.
Anyway we have probably spent enough time discussing them and its probably time to discuss how the government is going to revoke and remain as that is what is on the cards.
but all that matters to some is fucking Brexit.
My understanding of the ECJ ruling about the right of the UK to revoke A50 was contingent on us meaning it and not just for us to use as a means of delaying our exit. If that was our stated aim there is the possibility that the EU could reject our revocation and effectively chuck us out. I don't think that would happen but if they're as sick of the uncertainty as we are you never know.