Another new Brexit thread

[blueinsa]

They don’t have the balls to revoke.

I agree so what next?

 

[west didsblue]

I dont although i do think @BobKowalski looks at them through misty eyes at times ;-)

I too am a unionist and we differ in that i dont agree with the way brexit which the UK voted for should be used by the SNP as an excuse for what they want anyway and nor should remain supporters blame leave voters.

If the SNP and Scots vote for their own independence they can do so and own it as the rest of us wont be having any say.

Anyway we have probably spent enough time discussing them and its probably time to discuss how the government is going to revoke and remain as that is what is on the cards.

The SNP will use anything to bolster their argument. It doesn't matter what you or I think. Brexit gives them ammunition. Where I disagree with you, I do think it should have been a consideration of people when they voted Leave or Remain. It was well known that a Leave vote would make the break up of the union more likely. If that is not an issue then fair enough but for those that are supporters of the union, it is a consequence that should have been considered when casting their vote. If leaving the EU is more important to a leaver than retaining the UK in its current form, then so be it, but I'm not sure that is the case for all Leavers.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Not sure if you will see this Rascal but all that matters to me and many i know that voted to both leave and remain is that a democratic vote we held is respected by our politicians.

I've consistently argued that had we voted to remain and parliament said fuck it, we are leaving anyway i would be as vocal against that as i am now in favour of leaving as per the result of the ref.

Which confirms exactly what I keep saying about lots of you: you just want your Brexit victory and you don't care about the costs or implications.

What matters to me is the future my children will live their lives in, not some flaky, hijacked definition of the word "democracy" or being right down the pub.

I actually think most of you know it in your heart of hearts: there's only one way out of this catastrophe and I've said it since 2016: a second referendum which will result in us remaining in the EU.

 

[blueinsa]

The SNP will use anything to bolster their argument. It doesn't matter what you or I think. Brexit gives them ammunition. Where I disagree with you, I do think it should have been a consideration of people when they voted Leave or Remain. It was well known that a Leave vote would make the break up of the union more likely. If that is not an issue then fair enough but for those that are supporters of the union, it is a consequence that should have been considered when casting their vote.

The flip side to that is in a UK vote, you accept the overall result and dont start crying after when it doesnt go your way.

Its nationalists doing that, not unionists and im not going to give an inch to them over it and nor should anyone else imo.

 

[west didsblue]

The flip side to that is in a UK vote, you accept the overall result and dont start crying after when it doesnt go your way.

Its nationalists doing that, not unionists and im not going to give an inch to them over it and nor should anyone else imo.

Agree with that, and had we retained the status quo the nationalist movement would have become an irrelevance for at least a generation. As it is now, they will never shut up.

 

[blueinsa]

Which confirms exactly what I keep saying about lots of you: you just want your Brexit victory and you don't care about the costs or implications.

What matters to me is the future my children will live their lives in, not some flaky, hijacked definition of the word "democracy" or being right down the pub.

I actually think most of you know it in your heart of hearts: there's only one way out of this catastrophe and I've said it since 2016: a second referendum which will result in us remaining in the EU.

It says i'm a democrat and that i believe the result of the ref should be respected and acted on.

Id say the same had i voted to remain so not sure how you stretch that to me just wanting a victory or my brexit?

I care about my kids Dave as well, all 4 of them and im sorry mate i dont like a future for them where votes are ignored because a minority of the electorate didn't like it.

 

[smudgedj]

I agree so what next?

The Brexit process now needs to be taken forward to completion, in accordance with the majority vote of those who could be arsed to participate. Democracy; as determined by the majority vote, has a far higher value than your or mine or anyone’s personal wishes.

 

[west didsblue]

It says i'm a democrat and that i believe the result of the ref should be respected and acted on.

Id say the same had i voted to remain so not sure how you stretch that to me just wanting a victory or my brexit?

I care about my kids Dave as well, all 4 of them and im sorry mate and i dont like a future for them where votes are ignored because a minority of the electorate didn't like it.

If your vote had been ignored, we wouldn't have had this three year shit show.

 

[blueinsa]

The Brexit process now needs to be taken forward to completion, in accordance with the majority vote of those who could be arsed to participate. Democracy; as determined by the majority vote, has a far higher value than your or mine or anyone’s personal wishes.

I agree completely.

Next GE the country an vote in a pro remain party and we can rejoin if that is the wish of the electorate in the same way we can vote a government in, say its been shite and not worked and then change it down the line.

What we have never done is vote in a government and allowed the losing side to say fuck that, we are not having any of it so lets vote again and hopefully get the result we want this time.

Thats just my opinion though.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

After having to pull another Brexit thread this morning, decided it would be easier just to start a new one rather than waste time tidying the other one up. It's a good opportunity to start afresh, and draw a line in the sand. The previous approach of taking a hands-off approach to moderating these threads isn't really working, as the same groups of posters keep turning the threads to shit. Let's keep the discussion civil and debate things sensibly, otherwise you'll be removed from the thread and potentially banned from the forum completely. This applies to all the political threads in here. Report anyone that you feel is trolling or being unnecessarily anatagonistic so that we can deal with it rather than derailing threads with personal arguments. It's kind of the last throw of the dice this, so if this doesn't work we may just bin the political forum off completely. Cheers.

Where's the poll??!!

 

[blueinsa]

If your vote had been ignored, we wouldn't have had this three year shit show.

Of course its been ignored in so much the promise by parliament to deliver on the result has been reneged upon by all sides of the house.

Arguing over it for 3 years and then being told im sorry we couldn't get it done in the end wont wash it simply will not wash and they know it wont.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

It says i'm a democrat and that i believe the result of the ref should be respected and acted on.

Id say the same had i voted to remain so not sure how you stretch that to me just wanting a victory or my brexit?

I care about my kids Dave as well, all 4 of them and im sorry mate and i dont like a future for them where votes are ignored because a minority of the electorate didn't like it.

So when the UK they inherit has only two countries in it, shrinking pensions, fewer job opportunities, a collapsed housing market, no freedom of movement and underfunded public services, I'm sure they won't mind when you tell them that you did it because you're "a democrat".

I know you mate. You're a stubborn fucker. You will stick with your Brexit even if it means a Nuclear War ;-)

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I'm a remainer (obviously) and like the benefits of free movement and trade but uncomfortable with a closer political union. I would prefer to remain 'as is' with our separate currency / not in Schengen and with a veto over the Eu's most contentious policies (I want my cake and eat it). I was one of the 16.1 million that voted to remain but object to the 17.4 million leavers now advocating a hard brexit that looks nothing like the sunny uplands we were promised.

 

[blueinsa]

So when the UK they inherit has only two countries in it, shrinking pensions, fewer job opportunities, a collapsed housing market, no freedom of movement and underfunded public services, I'm sure they won't mind when you tell them that you did it because you're "a democrat".

I know you mate. You're a stubborn fucker. You will stick with your Brexit even if it means a Nuclear War ;-)

If and it is an if, the above happens we can as a democratic country vote to reverse our decision and rejoin the EU.

All of the above can happen with a shit government and has done way too frequently so we go to the polls and vote the fuckers out to let the next lot in to fuck it up ;-)

We dont and never will hopefully get to the point where results of elections are ignored because a minority doesnt like it.

 

[blueinsa]

Do you think that course of action will wash with millions of the electorate and that is a serious question mate?

 

[west didsblue]

If and it is an if, the above happens we can as a democratic country vote to reverse our decision and rejoin the EU.

All of the above can happen with a shit government and has done way too frequently so we go to the polls and vote the fuckers out to let the next lot in to fuck it up ;-)

We dont and never will hopefully get to the point where results of elections are ignored because a minority doesnt like it.

You're missing the point that the referendum was only ever advisory. Afterwards both parties committed to deliver it but the referendum itself was advisory. The government has failed to deliver, but it would not be anti-democratic to not follow an advisory vote, especially after three years of attempting to come up with an equitable way of leaving.
Also, had it been a binding vote, the courts would have overturned it due to irregularities. The only reason they didn't was because it was advisory.

 

[blueinsa]

You're missing the point that the referendum was only ever advisory. Afterwards both parties committed to deliver it but the referendum itself was advisory. The government has failed to deliver, but it would not be anti-democratic to not follow an advisory vote, especially after three years of attempting to come up with an equitable way of leaving.

I'm not missing the point, I'm dismissing it because parliament made a promise to deliver on the result.

Had remain won any advisory argument would have been laughed out of the room, as it should be now.

I can see why it would be used as an excuse and get out but my opinion is that to millions of the electorate it will simply not be accepted.

 

[west didsblue]

I'm not missing the point, I'm dismissing it because parliament made a promise to deliver on the result.

Had remain won any advisory argument would have been laughed out of the room, as it should be now.

I can see why it would be used as an excuse and get out but my opinion is that to millions of the electorate it will simply not be accepted.

We're obviously not going to agree so I'll leave it there.

Good to have a discussion that hasn't gone the way of previous discussions on other threads!

 

[Blue Hefner]

I know a bloke with Diplomatic Immunity. As I am sure you know, it's not like it is in the films.....