You believing the above is happening and telling us?
I also have faith that the UK won’t become a fascist state, but the likes of Farage and co aided and abetted by the Express and Mail are giving it a good go.
They all happened. Pretending otherwise is well...a bit like pretending anti-semitism isn’t a bit of an issue in the Labour Party right now?
The problem of selling your soul for a cause is that you have to blind yourself to its faults.
Farage has been around for years shit stirring.Farage exits courtesy of the fact remain MP's and those just opposed to anything Tory along with the ERG have decided to stop parliament from agreeing to leave the EU.
As they gave him a platform they an just as easily remove it.
Farage has been around for years shit stirring.
Farage exits courtesy of the fact remain MP's and those just opposed to anything Tory along with the ERG have decided to stop parliament from agreeing to leave the EU.
As they gave him a platform they an just as easily remove it.
He has been an elected representative for the South East of England for 20 years and the leader of the EFDD group for 15 years. That makes him not like the rest of us.Yet never once has been in power or in charge of UK policy and could be ignored for what he was, just someone with an opinion like the rest of us.
He has been an elected representative for the South East of England for 20 years and the leader of the EFDD group for 15 years. That makes him not like the rest of us.
Is not most of what is posted on here the opinions of people?As I have said in the past... this is just your belief and the UK holds the vetos to stop further integration... unless you're saying that the problem is you don't trust your own politicians to use it.
Such has the cause of EU federalism?They all happened. Pretending otherwise is well...a bit like pretending anti-semitism isn’t a bit of an issue in the Labour Party right now?
The problem of selling your soul for a cause is that you have to blind yourself to its faults.
I’m afraid, Farage is here to stay. Whatever happens he will be banging the ‘if only’ drum. Let’s say we get a deal, it won’t be good enough, he and his ilk will be talking about surrender. And in the event of ‘no-deal’ no matter how big or small the disruption he will be banging on about the incompetent government and ‘if only x, y and z’ there wouldn’t have been a need for a no-deal and that he’s never advocated for one
If you had researched it in more detail you would have found that the changes to vetoes actually gives more power to the larger countries, including the UK, at the expense of the smaller countries. Vetoes will still be available for the most critical areas relating to foreign affairs, taxation, justice and the EU budget amongst others.Is not most of what is posted on here the opinions of people?
Some I would suggest are derived from a greater level of research and analysis than others
Part of that opinion is that there are moves already in hand to reduce/marginalise the ability to use vetoes. If you are prepared to objectively analyse the way things are developing it is blindingly obvious why the UK will opt at a future point for increasing levels of integration - so it will not even be a level of 'trust'.
Are you suggesting i have somehow sold my soul Bob?
Again, i think I've been quite clear of late on here that I'm now fully in favour of a second ref to get us out of this mess and i favour the option of not just remaining but actually fully integrating with the EU being on the ballot paper so that the country can decide our future once and for all.
lets put it to bed and be in or out.
Im also clear that the rhetoric that surrounds the brexit debate grinds my fucking gears.
You know that so shouldn't be surprised when i disagree with what you have just written.
You want to invent enemies whilst im want us to just get on with shit regardless.
Perhaps the problem is how people respond to the rhetoric when it concerns an issue they have invested in.
I have done my research and I am satisfied with my level of understanding - but thanks anywayIf you had researched it in more detail you would have found that the changes to vetoes actually gives more power to the larger countries, including the UK, at the expense of the smaller countries. Vetoes will still be available for the most critical areas relating to foreign affairs, taxation, justice and the EU budget amongst others.
This is worth a read. It refutes most of the inaccurate claims made about the Lisbon Treaty including the supposed inevitability of integration.
https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-list-about-lisbon-treaty-wrong/
I’ll go with loaned with a recall option.
As for your advocating full integration with the EU the cynic in me thinks that is more about pushing people into rejecting the EU than anything else. We will integrate as much or as little as the country feels comfortable with. But to be comfortable we have to understand what the European project is about and that will not happen with our media or political class. Neither are up to the job and consequently neither are we. Getting the people to vote in a binary manner on foreign policy with all its inherent complexities is a nonsense. It was a nonsense in 2016 and will be a nonsense if we hold yet another referendum. If the last three years has proven anything is that literally no one in our political or media class had a fucking clue about the EU so how the hell is Joe Average meant to pass judgement? That a second ref may be the only way out of this mess is yet another indictment of the state of our politics.
And I’m sure the rhetoric grinds your gears. I’m sure the rhetoric surrounding the anti-semitism issue in the Labour Party grinds a fair few gears amongst Corbyn supporters too. Perhaps the problem isn’t the rhetoric. Perhaps the problem is how people respond to the rhetoric when it concerns an issue they have invested in.
You’re welcome.I have done my research and I am satisfied with my level of understanding - but thanks anyway
I've done the research and I think it's inconsistent. (Which would be inevitable first - full integration or collapse?)I just want honesty about the way things are going
Curious as to why you are struggling to ".....reconcile your different views of what's inevitable (full integration of the UK into the EU, or the collapse of the EU)."
Those views would scream out entire consistency IMO and of course because of that...
They absolutely underpin my concern that the UK need to get away from the failing EU model
I suspect that you are just searching for inconsistency / issues where none exists and that is impairing your level of analysis / thinking things through
Oh - do give over with your silly games
And where do we go if we cannot agree a baseline that matches your personal opinion?We have not gotten very far in the 3 years with Remainers continuously showing no tolerance to the views of Leavers and their reasons for voting Leave.
What will cause the UK to become part of increased integration in the future has already been mentioned several times - and not just by me.
You guys do not appear to have been listening - so I think that it is reasonable to establish that baseline first - then whether being inside or outside an integrated EU becomes a logical follow up topic
Then we are all the problem then yes?
Maybe it should stop?
Does the cynic in you not consider that a referendum that had May's WA or Remain as the options would be more about loading the dice utterly to ensure that there was no mistake a 2nd time.
I would vote Remain before I would vote for an unfettered backstop - so it does seem a somewhat loaded set of options