What you said wasn’t the scary part the scary part is that you are more or less accurate. These people didn’t die or go away after the civil rights bills were passed and they probably won’t be going away anytime soon. I mean we got tele-evangelicals making a killing duping folks like them of their meager savings and conservative radio talk show hosts like Alex Jones making a killing selling them vitamin water just cause they spout the nonsense they wanna hear!
Donald Trump
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What you said wasn’t the scary part the scary part is that you are more or less accurate. These people didn’t die or go away after the civil rights bills were passed and they probably won’t be going away anytime soon. I mean we got tele-evangelicals making a killing duping folks like them of their meager savings and conservative radio talk show hosts like Alex Jones making a killing selling them vitamin water just cause they spout the nonsense they wanna hear!
buckshot
Well-Known Member
Among republicans:
4 said it was racist
187 were fine with it
Tell me again how the GOP isn't the party of racists...
4 said it was racist
187 were fine with it
Tell me again how the GOP isn't the party of racists...
You believe English liberals hate England? Why?
gordondaviesmoustache
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Are people still talking about impeachment? It’s not happening folks, at least not in any meaningful way - I would so love to be proven wrong btw.
ChicagoBlue
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Impeachment will not happen unless there is a seismic shift in the Republican Party, as their majority will stop it from happening. However, that presupposes that the end result is the only goal one is trying to achieve...it isn’t!
Impeachment hearings will air out the many, many despicable (and illegal) things Trump has done, on TV, for prosperity. It will separate the whos and the what’s for posterity, too.
When you see people under oath, live, answering questions they can’t dodge, especially when they have already testified under oath to a Grand Jury under threat of perjury and lying to a Grand Jury (a crime), it cements the words. It cuts through the obfuscation. It puts the attacker (Trump) on the defensive.
Most important point is that impeachment is a process, not necessarily an end result. Never forget, Nixon resigned. The hope is that an impeachment process tees up who Trump is, and what he has done, for the 2020 vote.
ChicagoBlue
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Venture outside the blue urban areas, and you won’t find many people who could even tell you when the Civil Rights Act was passed, who Rosa Parks was, or what Brown vs Board of Education was about. Travel just a little further afield and into staunchly red suburban and rural areas of this country, and you find people who not only don’t know about those things, but absolutely don’t care about them, because those things and the people about whom they speak are not “real” Americans...they are the “other” about which Trump so often speaks.
I often say that if you scratch the thin veneer on most humans, you will find an animal within....kind of a Lord of the Flies mentality....and in America, under that thin veneer you will also find racist tropes and attitudes flow both freely and openly, even in supposed “polite company.” I see and hear it all the time. Sadly, it is who hundreds of millions of Americans simply ARE.
THIS IS AMERICA TODAY, 2019, AND TRUMP IS THE LEADER OF THE PACK!
gordondaviesmoustache
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I so hope you're right. He’s utterly malign.
Rascal
El Presidente
Thanks for that, I am not well up on the workings of your constitution or the system of government you use. That has made it clearer in my mind.
I have always wondered though if the constitution binds you to a bygone age and whether it is still relevant today. I would love your thoughts on it.
It’s no surprise people like that talk about the moment the party alignments flopped as myth....as if the racists in the south magically disappeared when they voted red.
FogBlueInSanFran
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As I've often described, I think rural Americans are far more complex than this, and many of those I know are kind, decent people who would go out of their way to help you (and I'm in Coatesville, Pennsylvania as I write this). And I'd quibble with "hundreds of millions" because that implies a minimum of two hundred million and there are less than 400M in the country.
But . . . sadly . . . the bulk of this post is pretty spot on, especially the racial tropes, which are far, far more common than I think Europeans suspect, discouragingly so.
The English are not as Nationalistic or as Patriotic as Americans are. But if I'm wrong Im open to correction.
If you don't mind, when did the parties flip? And why?
idahoblues
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idahoblues
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Little England is alive and well, maybe getting smaller but being on BM for ten years has confirmed that
Before 1964 the American South voted blue/Democrat. However, when the Democrats and LBJ helped push for the passing of the Civil Rights act the people(or racists)in the south who voted democrats started voting red/Republican when the Republican Party decided to want to appeal to these voters by pushing socially conservative issues such as being against abortion, against improved social welfare, against gay marriage, and against school busing(google “school busing in the U.S” for more info). If you can’t tell, a lot of these issues are very closely tied to racism and it’s these voters(or there descendants)who are now voting for Trump and many Republican candidates.
Are all republicans racist? No, there are probably some who really do push for small government and low government spending but many in the party unfortunately push racist agendas but masked in coded words. However now Trump has thrown away all propriety and code speak to full blown racism. He may not be saying “n***a, n***a, n***a but he doesn’t need to be anymore clear.
ChicagoBlue
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RESOLUTION
Condemning President Trump's racist comments directed at Members of Congress.
Whereas the Founders conceived America as a haven of refuge for people fleeing from religious and political persecution, and Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison all emphasized that the Nation gained as it attracted new people in search of freedom and livelihood for their families;
Whereas the Declaration of Independence defined America as a covenant based on equality, the unalienable Rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and government by the consent of the people;
Whereas Benjamin Franklin said at the Constitutional convention, "When foreigners after looking about for some other Country in which they can obtain more happiness, give a preference to ours, it is a proof of attachment which ought to excite our confidence and affection";
Whereas President Franklin D. Roosevelt said, "Remember, remember always, that all of us, and you and I especially, are descended from immigrants and revolutionists";
Whereas immigration of people from all over the Earth has defined every stage of American history and propelled our social, economic, political, scientific, cultural, artistic, and technological progress as a people, and all Americans, except for the descendants of Native people and enslaved African-Americans, are immigrants or descendants of immigrants;
Whereas the commitment to immigration and asylum has been not a partisan cause but a powerful national value that has infused the work of many Presidents;
Whereas American patriotism is defined not by race or ethnicity but by devotion to the Constitutional ideals of equality, liberty, inclusion, and democracy and by service to our communities and struggle for the common good;
Whereas President John F. Kennedy, whose family came to the United States from Ireland, stated in his 1958 book "A Nation of Immigrants" that "The contribution of immigrants can be seen in every aspect of our national life. We see it in religion, in politics, in business, in the arts, in education, even in athletics and entertainment. There is no part of our nation that has not been touched by our immigrant background. Everywhere immigrants have enriched and strengthened the fabric of American life.";
Whereas President Ronald Reagan in his last speech as President conveyed "An observation about a country which I love";
Whereas as President Reagan observed, the torch of Lady Liberty symbolizes our freedom and represents our heritage, the compact with our parents, our grandparents, and our ancestors, and it is the Statue of Liberty and its values that give us our great and special place in the world;
Whereas other countries may seek to compete with us, but in one vital area, as "a beacon of freedom and opportunity that draws the people of the world, no country on Earth comes close";
Whereas it is the great life force of "each generation of new Americans that guarantees that America's triumph shall continue unsurpassed" through the 21st century and beyond and is part of the "magical, intoxicating power of America";
Whereas this is "one of the most important sources of America's greatness: we lead the world because, unique among nations, we draw our people — our strength — from every country and every corner of the world, and by doing so we continuously renew and enrich our nation";
Whereas "thanks to each wave of new arrivals to this land of opportunity, we're a nation forever young, forever bursting with energy and new ideas, and always on the cutting edge", always leading the world to the next frontier;
Whereas this openness is vital to our future as a Nation, and "if we ever closed the door to new Americans, our leadership in the world would soon be lost"; and
Whereas President Trump's racist comments have legitimized fear and hatred of new Americans and people of color:
Now, therefore, be it resolved,
That the House of Representatives —
(1) believes that immigrants and their descendants have made America stronger, and that those who take the oath of citizenship are every bit as American as those whose families have lived in the United States for many generations;
(2) is committed to keeping America open to those lawfully seeking refuge and asylum from violence and oppression, and those who are willing to work hard to live the American Dream, no matter their race, ethnicity, faith, or country of origin; and
(3) condemns President Donald Trump's racist comments that have legitimized and increased fear and hatred of new Americans and people of color by saying that our fellow Americans who are immigrants, and those who may look to the President like immigrants, should "go back" to other countries, by referring to immigrants and asylum seekers as "invaders," and by saying that Members of Congress who are immigrants (or those of our colleagues who are wrongly assumed to be immigrants) do not belong in Congress or in the United States of America.
RESOLUTION PASSED
Condemning President Trump's racist comments directed at Members of Congress.
Whereas the Founders conceived America as a haven of refuge for people fleeing from religious and political persecution, and Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison all emphasized that the Nation gained as it attracted new people in search of freedom and livelihood for their families;
Whereas the Declaration of Independence defined America as a covenant based on equality, the unalienable Rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and government by the consent of the people;
Whereas Benjamin Franklin said at the Constitutional convention, "When foreigners after looking about for some other Country in which they can obtain more happiness, give a preference to ours, it is a proof of attachment which ought to excite our confidence and affection";
Whereas President Franklin D. Roosevelt said, "Remember, remember always, that all of us, and you and I especially, are descended from immigrants and revolutionists";
Whereas immigration of people from all over the Earth has defined every stage of American history and propelled our social, economic, political, scientific, cultural, artistic, and technological progress as a people, and all Americans, except for the descendants of Native people and enslaved African-Americans, are immigrants or descendants of immigrants;
Whereas the commitment to immigration and asylum has been not a partisan cause but a powerful national value that has infused the work of many Presidents;
Whereas American patriotism is defined not by race or ethnicity but by devotion to the Constitutional ideals of equality, liberty, inclusion, and democracy and by service to our communities and struggle for the common good;
Whereas President John F. Kennedy, whose family came to the United States from Ireland, stated in his 1958 book "A Nation of Immigrants" that "The contribution of immigrants can be seen in every aspect of our national life. We see it in religion, in politics, in business, in the arts, in education, even in athletics and entertainment. There is no part of our nation that has not been touched by our immigrant background. Everywhere immigrants have enriched and strengthened the fabric of American life.";
Whereas President Ronald Reagan in his last speech as President conveyed "An observation about a country which I love";
Whereas as President Reagan observed, the torch of Lady Liberty symbolizes our freedom and represents our heritage, the compact with our parents, our grandparents, and our ancestors, and it is the Statue of Liberty and its values that give us our great and special place in the world;
Whereas other countries may seek to compete with us, but in one vital area, as "a beacon of freedom and opportunity that draws the people of the world, no country on Earth comes close";
Whereas it is the great life force of "each generation of new Americans that guarantees that America's triumph shall continue unsurpassed" through the 21st century and beyond and is part of the "magical, intoxicating power of America";
Whereas this is "one of the most important sources of America's greatness: we lead the world because, unique among nations, we draw our people — our strength — from every country and every corner of the world, and by doing so we continuously renew and enrich our nation";
Whereas "thanks to each wave of new arrivals to this land of opportunity, we're a nation forever young, forever bursting with energy and new ideas, and always on the cutting edge", always leading the world to the next frontier;
Whereas this openness is vital to our future as a Nation, and "if we ever closed the door to new Americans, our leadership in the world would soon be lost"; and
Whereas President Trump's racist comments have legitimized fear and hatred of new Americans and people of color:
Now, therefore, be it resolved,
That the House of Representatives —
(1) believes that immigrants and their descendants have made America stronger, and that those who take the oath of citizenship are every bit as American as those whose families have lived in the United States for many generations;
(2) is committed to keeping America open to those lawfully seeking refuge and asylum from violence and oppression, and those who are willing to work hard to live the American Dream, no matter their race, ethnicity, faith, or country of origin; and
(3) condemns President Donald Trump's racist comments that have legitimized and increased fear and hatred of new Americans and people of color by saying that our fellow Americans who are immigrants, and those who may look to the President like immigrants, should "go back" to other countries, by referring to immigrants and asylum seekers as "invaders," and by saying that Members of Congress who are immigrants (or those of our colleagues who are wrongly assumed to be immigrants) do not belong in Congress or in the United States of America.
RESOLUTION PASSED
ChicagoBlue
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Agreed. Tens of millions.
And, I agree that there are many, many good, honest Americans outside the urban areas, and some bad people in the urban areas, but I was trying to paint with a broad brush that gave people the gist of America today as they watch from afar.
As someone immersed in American life, you know, as I do, that it is getting increasingly hard to generalize about Americans as we lurch further and further to the extremes, because people don’t like to talk about how they feel out there on a limb. However, there are certain stereotypes that exist for the exact reason that they are true.
Not to change the charge of the thread entirely, as I know its more of an anti-Trump thread than anything else. I guess our government is similar to yours in Except out President is like Your Prime Minister and our Congresspeople are like your Members of Parliament. We have a Judiciary are as the 3rd arm. The Constitution details the powers of each arm of government. At its most basic the Executive runs the day to day government under the policy prescription of the President, the Legislature make and Pass laws, and the Judiciary (Supreme Court) determines if those laws are constitutional.
All 3 in the best of times act as a balance against the excesses of the other 2 (well mostly the excesses of the Executive and the Legislature). At the worst of times they are partial and all less American for it. As they prioritize their party politics over what's good for the country. Generally the Judiciary is the least Partisan. As it's hard to nominate or confirm an extremist. But in the last 20 years, both Parties have done an awful job changing the rules and making the confirmation of Partisan Judges more likely. Which is unfortunate.
But that's the generic gist of it.
ChicagoBlue
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That is the power of Jesus and abortion! Have billionaires give you the money to CREATE a wedge issue, run with it in the churches and at the picnics, and before you know it, there is a generation of people who have no idea that Roe vs Wade was never a serious issue, even amongst Republicans.
John Paul Stevens, who was nominated by a Republican, but who is called the greatest liberal Justice of all time, died tonight at age 99. At his nomination hearings, just a few short months after the Roe decision, was never even asked how he felt about the decision. THAT is how important Roe was back in the day.
The issues that have created the Blue-Red divide in the South are literally manufactured issues, funded by billionaires and the supposed Christians who have succumbed to their lucre.
ChicagoBlue
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I think you misunderstand how the American people change the Constitution. Federal judges, conservative or otherwise, have no say in the matter, nor does a President, conservative or otherwise.
That said, loading State Houses (38/50, I believe) DOES ensure that any Constitutional changes (and only 2A is ever under “serious” discussion) are virtually impossible!
Gabriel
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‘Flipped’ is perhaps not the most helpful word as it suggests something rapid. The change can be seen to have evolved from approximately 1948 to 2010, with supporters of both parties over that period perceiving each other as becoming increasingly liberal and increasingly conservative. The long history shows, however, that party alignment is not fixed.
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