Another new Brexit thread

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George Hannah said:
I am Doctor Who it seems. How else do I reply to a post before it's made?
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Trying not to be picky, but you misquoted Hollande. I think it was the media that mistranslated "prix, menace, risque" into a "heavy price" as if it was a threat rather than an inevitable consequence of our decision.

For some reason I don't think Juncker's speech at the same event got quite the same coverage in Britain.

"Often those who watch us do not understand what we are doing," says Jean-Claude Juncker. "We must stop talking about the United States of Europe. There will never be any. We can not mislead citizens. People do not want it. They like the proximity, their territory, the diversity of national identities. Europe can not be built against the will of nations or give the impression that it is in the process of becoming state-owned. Nations are here to last, and we respect it. But Europe must help them where they are condemned to stand still if they remain alone. Europe has to be big and ambitious on big issues, and modest, almost shy, on issues of everyday life."
 
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Ban-jani said:
Why do you apologise before every post?

The people that think I am are wrong are the 3/4 Leave voters on here that are continuously in the same pack. It’s not many posters at all, there is in fact some leave posters who agree with me on the severity of the border issue.

Please don’t use these posters as some sort of point about how the forum thinks. Most remainers on here think you’re the worst poster on the forum, that doesn’t really matter though and doesn’t need saying.

My last exchange with a leave poster, that actually got into detail, resulted in me explaining why just checking at ports and at source isn’t realistic nor achievable and I never received a response.

I’m repetitive on it because it is the key issue and the key reason we’ve not yet left.

You not thinking it is just shows that you know absolutely nothing about the situation we’re in.

The whole purpose of the backstop is to keep the GFA, it’s the absolute essence and whole point of it. It means we keep our customs in line with the EU until another solution is found, so that the border remains open and so that it’s not compromised.

His point is on consent between both London and Brussels when a solution is found and he may have a point but it doesn’t completely go against it, it’s not a technical point he’s making but more of an emotional one in line with the EU having the final say on when we can leave.

You seem to presume that my position is one of love for the backstop, it isn’t. I just acknowledge the need for it and if YOU want to leave the EU, this is the only way, whilst maintaining our international obligations.

I can raise you RT Hon Lord Trimble by informing you that the European Union, the Irish Government and the UK government all agreed that if we were to leave the Customs Union, this is the most secure way of ensuring the GFA wasn’t compromised.

I don’t demand you accept my views, I’m not here to claim victory and wank over point scoring, I’m here because I enjoy debating politics and it’s best place to read contrary views to my own.

The fact still remains you do not have an alternative to the backstop, because there isn’t one at the moment and won’t be for some time.

If you or the RT Hon Lord Trimble have an alternative, I’m all ears, but until that point, you cannot expect anyone to push for another version of Brexit than the one we have waiting to be signed.

Here’s an overview of what it’s for, for anyone that would like to know-

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/northern-ireland-backstop
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Only saw the first line and it did not seem to contain an explanation of why you should be considered to know more about the GFA and the impact of the Irish protocol on it than the guy that was awarded the Nobel Peace prize for his part in establishing the peace

I therefore assume that the rest is simply a continuation of your bizarre demand that you 'know better' - lovely weather out here and, unsurprisingly, I have better things to do with my time

Edit:

Actually, I did get as far as you saying: "....The people that think I am are wrong are the 3/4 Leave voters on here...."

If you genuinely believe that - apart from 3 or 4 Leave supporters - everyone on here believes that you know more than Trimble with regards the GFA and the impact of the Irish protocol on it - that speaks volumes about your ego.

Crack on looking in that mirror mate - you must like what you see.​
 
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mcfc1632 said:
Only saw the first line and it did not seem to contain an explanation of why you should be considered to know more about the GFA and the impact of the Irish protocol on it than the guy that was awarded the Nobel Peace prize for his part in establishing the peace

I therefore assume that the rest is simply a continuation of your bizarre demand that you 'know better' - lovely weather out here and, unsurprisingly, I have better things to do with my time

Edit:

Actually, I did get as far as you saying: "....The people that think I am are wrong are the 3/4 Leave voters on here...."

If you genuinely believe that - apart from 3 or 4 Leave supporters - everyone on here believes that you know more than Trimble with regards the GFA and the impact of the Irish protocol on it - that speaks volumes about your ego.

Crack on looking in that mirror mate - you must like what you see.​
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You’ve posted the below-

If you do feel the need to come back on and demand that we accept your views to be authoritative - I will be all ears.


But could you please start your dissertation with a compelling explanation of why your views should be considered to be more informed and authoritative and be taken as more considered than the:
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And then only bothered to read one line of what I’ve written?

What is the point of you being on here, seriously?

Congrats on finding someone who doesn’t like the backstop by the way, if he is indeed correct, which he isn’t because all 3 parties in the EU, UK and Ireland agree the backstop upholds the GFA, but let’s pretend he is, it means that the only way of upholding the GFA is remaining in the EU.

So you’re actually arguing for Remain, not that you’ve noticed.

So either offer an alternative of leaving or go away.
 
Vic said:
Trying not to be picky, but you misquoted Hollande. I think it was the media that mistranslated "prix, menace, risque" into a "heavy price" as if it was a threat rather than an inevitable consequence of our decision.

For some reason I don't think Juncker's speech at the same event got quite the same coverage in Britain.

"Often those who watch us do not understand what we are doing," says Jean-Claude Juncker. "We must stop talking about the United States of Europe. There will never be any. We can not mislead citizens. People do not want it. They like the proximity, their territory, the diversity of national identities. Europe can not be built against the will of nations or give the impression that it is in the process of becoming state-owned. Nations are here to last, and we respect it. But Europe must help them where they are condemned to stand still if they remain alone. Europe has to be big and ambitious on big issues, and modest, almost shy, on issues of everyday life."
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It's a crucial issue, the leaders of France and Germany are as one on their federal agenda, it's the whole point of the European project and a condition of it working. Juncker is just their appointed lackey and apologist telling porkies. There's no misquote or reasonable doubt about the meaning of Hollande's speech at the time or his repetition of the threat word for word in the recent interview for the Panorama programme.
 
Ban-jani said:
You’ve posted the below-



And then only bothered to read one line of what I’ve written?

What is the point of you being on here, seriously?

Congrats on finding someone who doesn’t like the backstop by the way, if he is indeed correct, which he isn’t because all 3 parties in the EU, UK and Ireland agree the backstop upholds the GFA, but let’s pretend he is, it means that the only way of upholding the GFA is remaining in the EU.

So you’re actually arguing for Remain, not that you’ve noticed.

So either offer an alternative of leaving or go away.
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Seriously - what a proper weird post - strange??

So you have just posted that I requested:

"If you do feel the need to come back on and demand that we accept your views to be authoritative - I will be all ears.

But could you please start your dissertation with a compelling explanation of why your views should be considered to be more informed and authoritative and be taken as more considered than the...….."

And you did not do that and then you moan about me not bothering to read the rest....

Proper weird and self-indulgent post

To use your suggestion....

Just go away and bother other people because, IMO, it would appear that you clearly have nothing to back up your fanciful bluster - and I have, unsurprisingly, more interesting things to do
 
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What happens if the EU refuse to tweak /renegotiate? There would be no grounds to bring the deal back to parliament or have any vote on anything. I'm assuming it would be down to a remain mp to propose a bill to request a further extension /revocation?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
What happens if the EU refuse to tweak /renegotiate? There would be no grounds to bring the deal back to parliament or have any vote on anything. I'm assuming it would be down to a remain mp to propose a bill to request a further extension /revocation?
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Can the British Parliament instruct the PM to request an extension? If we don’t request one can the EU make us have one?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Seriously - what a proper weird post - strange??

So you have just posted that I requested:

"If you do feel the need to come back on and demand that we accept your views to be authoritative - I will be all ears.

But could you please start your dissertation with a compelling explanation of why your views should be considered to be more informed and authoritative and be taken as more considered than the...….."

And you did not do that and then you moan about me not bothering to read the rest....

Proper weird and self-indulgent post

To use your suggestion....

Just go away and bother other people because you clearly have nothing to back up your fanciful bluster - and I have, unsurprisingly, more interesting things to do
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No I do not answer to your tune or requests.

You’re not running this forum.

I’ll post whatever I want, within CoC, until a MOD tells me otherwise.

I see you’ve tried to steer it away from the debate yet again.

Fancy giving an alternative to the backstop as per our discussion or are you going to continue to play the man?
 
Ban-jani said:
No I do not answer to your tune or requests.

You’re not running this forum.

I’ll post whatever I want, within CoC, until a MOD tells me otherwise.

I see you’ve tried to steer it away from the debate yet again.

Fancy giving an alternative to the backstop as per our discussion or are you going to continue to play the man?
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Not sure. I think the last one was requested as part of an amended bill on the deal. Not sure what happens if Boris just runs the clock down. No deal is by my understanding not a choice but a default if nothing else happens.
 
hgblue said:
Can the British Parliament instruct the PM to request an extension? If we don’t request one can the EU make us have one?
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Isn't that what Letwin did when parliament took over government voting to put through one of the Greive amendments against the PM s wishes.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Not sure. I think the last one was requested as part of an amended bill on the deal. Not sure what happens if Boris just runs the clock down. No deal is by my understanding not a choice but a default if nothing else happens.
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Thank you, back on topic.

It’s going to be very tricky for him to do with a clear mandate against running the clock down in Parliament and with the Tory Party having such a slender majority, I really can’t see it getting there.

Tory MP’s will defect to bring the government down before a no deal goes through.
 
Ban-jani said:
Thank you, back on topic.

It’s going to be very tricky for him to do with a clear mandate against running the clock down in Parliament and with the Tory Party having such a slender majority, I really can’t see it getting there.

Tory MP’s will defect to bring the government down before a no deal goes through.
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I think you may be right, but if you look at the ammount of parliamentary working weeks / days there are before 31 Oct it's hard to see anything getting done either way. Even a labour no confidence motion would pretty much have to be tabled this week.
 
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