Another new Brexit thread

[Fred_Quimby]

So Boris tells us that he prefers a deal. There is a deal on the table but he rejected it so what does he want in his deal that is different to the one already there? Has he said and does anyone know?

I feel it is just time wasting rhetoric and we go for no deal. Of course all those in Tory party can vote what they like as they will not be affected by the outcome. Just us poor plebs at the bottom of the pile.

 

[mcfc1632]

You better buckle up, looks like Ireland is gonna get a full Boris frontal

Now we all know that Brexit will get binned - but interesting to see the level of angst Boris is causing

 

[Ban-jani]

No, you've been asked many times. You've never actually answered.

And he’ll never give one...

Because he doesn’t have one.

 

[Ban-jani]

So Boris tells us that he prefers a deal. There is a deal on the table but he rejected it so what does he want in his deal that is different to the one already there? Has he said and does anyone know?

I feel it is just time wasting rhetoric and we go for no deal. Of course all those in Tory party can vote what they like as they will not be affected by the outcome. Just us poor plebs at the bottom of the pile.

He wants the backstop binned but there isn’t an alternative at the moment so around in circles we go.

 

[blueinsa]

And he’ll never give one...

Because he doesn’t have one.

Nicky Morgan!

That is your answer and its been given countless times.

By all means disagree and dismiss but dont then say you haven't been given an answer because you have.

 

[mcfc1632]

So Boris tells us that he prefers a deal. There is a deal on the table but he rejected it so what does he want in his deal that is different to the one already there? Has he said and does anyone know?

I feel it is just time wasting rhetoric and we go for no deal. Of course all those in Tory party can vote what they like as they will not be affected by the outcome. Just us poor plebs at the bottom of the pile.

???

Where have you been??

To start with the utterly poisonous backstop must be removed

Have you not heard or read that

 

[Blue Hefner]

I was always put off by the phrase ‘Tory Brexit’, but now it definitely looks like a ‘hard-right’ Brexit

I’d be interested to know if any traditional Labour, Lib-Dem voters that voted Leave would now change their mind given who’s at the wheel and more importantly, in the Cabinet?

 

[mcfc1632]

And he’ll never give one...

Because he doesn’t have one.

Bless

See Blueinsa above - and I can add to that.

The GFA and border issue has been weaponised by the EU - aided by Ireland - and the incompetence of Robbins and May.

Those that see it as some insummountable issue are - IMO - Simply those that are not able to apply objective analysis or are just too blinkered that they simply need to bang on with their mantra as they exercise their denial

 

[blueinsa]

I was always put off by the phrase ‘Tory Brexit’, but now it definitely looks like a ‘hard-right’ Brexit

I’d be interested to know if any traditional Labour, Lib-Dem voters that voted Leave would now change their mind given who’s at the wheel and more importantly, in the Cabinet?

No.

Traditional Labour voter here.

We need to leave the EU as per the result of the referendum.

Soft and hard doesnt come into it.

 

[Ban-jani]

Nicky Morgan!

That is your answer and its been given countless times.

By all means disagree and dismiss but dont then say you haven't been given an answer because you have.

I have and you never came back on my points?

 

[blueinsa]

I have and you never came back on my points?

I have come back countless times and we disagree.

Its probably time for us all to stop saying the other hasn't got a point or an answer and just agree to disagree.

 

[Ban-jani]

Bless

We’ll wait forever for you to give your government-level consultancy expertise.

Lol.

 

[Ban-jani]

I have come back countless times and we disagree.

Its probably time for us all to stop saying the other hasn't got a point or an answer and just agree to disagree.

A) no you didn’t, you posted the proposal and I told you what the ex shadow minister and an ex Tory MP said, about it only covering part of the issues with vehicles

B) I wasn’t talking about you, I actually appreciate the attempt at talking about a solution, the poster I was referring to doesn’t even bother but keeps on anyway

C) I want the Morgan proposal to work, I want this put to bed and IF the Morgan proposal’s optimistic estimates are correct, then we should take the Withdrawal Agreement and implement them in 3 years as Morgan has said.

 

[mcfc1632]

I was always put off by the phrase ‘Tory Brexit’, but now it definitely looks like a ‘hard-right’ Brexit

I’d be interested to know if any traditional Labour, Lib-Dem voters that voted Leave would now change their mind given who’s at the wheel and more importantly, in the Cabinet?

Not me for one

I still think the EU sycophants in Westminster will thwart Brexit - but at least there will he a genuine attempt to get it done

 

[mcfc1632]

No.

Traditional Labour voter here.

We need to leave the EU as per the result of the referendum.

Soft and hard doesnt come into it.

Correct - the only mandate us to Leave - the rest of the stuff - hard or soft - are just consequences of the negoiations

 

[blueinsa]

A) no you didn’t, you posted the proposal and I told you what the ex shadow minister and an ex Tory MP said, about it only covering part of the issues with vehicles

Your argument is based on every single wagon/shipment being stopped and searched.

That is not based on any reality whatsoever and does not reflect the way goods are moved around the globe on a daily basis.

Southampton is our biggest port for trade from outside the EU and currently less that 2% of shipments are physically checked, often intelligence led.

That picture will be repeated worldwide.

I get that a picture has been painted of miles and miles of trucks parked up, waiting for a man to go through them checking everything i do but it isn't based on reality and never will be.

Why? because the world would literally stop if it did.

Goods and shipments coming into Ireland via ports will be subject to the normal levels of checks as they are today, away from the border and sites will be set up to ensure sanitary and phytosanitary checks are done where needed, again away from the border.

Note. The UK has made it 100% clear that they will adopt the exact same standards we currently have within the EU to ensure the above can be done with minimal disruption.

The economies of Ireland and Northern Ireland require the above to be implemented and they will be imo and the talks to do this between the UK government, Dublin and Brussels is well underway, they have admitted as much.

 

[Blue Hefner]

No.

Traditional Labour voter here.

We need to leave the EU as per the result of the referendum.

Soft and hard doesnt come into it.

Cheers

But do you accept that if this current government gets Brexit through the chance of a Labour Government goes out of the window for another 5 years. That would be 15 years of Tory lead/Tory Government and with the likes of McVey, Truss, Patel in the Cabinet this current set-up couldn’t be further from traditional Labour values

That’s the circle I struggle to square. Don’t Leave and we have a (slim) chance of a Labour Government(forget Corbyn this is a thought experiment) but if we do Leave we have no chance of a Labour Government and Tories on steroids - you see where I’m coming from?

 

[blueinsa]

Cheers

But do you accept that if this current government gets Brexit through the chance of a Labour Government goes out of the window for another 5 years. That would be 15 years of Tory lead/Tory Government and with the likes of McVey, Truss, Patel in the Cabinet this current set-up couldn’t be further from traditional Labour values

That’s the circle I struggle to square. Don’t Leave and we have a (slim) chance of a Labour Government(forget Corbyn this is a thought experiment) but if we do Leave we have no chance of a Labour Government and Tories on steroids - you see where I’m coming from?

With Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum in charge of the Labour party i have no interest in seeing them in power.

 

[Ban-jani]

Your argument is based on every single wagon/shipment being stopped and searched.

That is not based on any reality whatsoever and does not reflect the way goods are moved around the globe on a daily basis.

Southampton is our biggest port for trade from outside the EU and currently less that 2% of shipments are physically checked, often intelligence led.

That picture will be repeated worldwide.

I get that a picture has been painted of miles and miles of trucks parked up, waiting for a man to go through them checking everything i do but it isn't based on reality and never will be.

Why? because the world would literally stop if it did.

Goods and shipments coming into Ireland via ports will be subject to the normal levels of checks as they are today, away from the border and sites will be set up to ensure sanitary and phytosanitary checks are done where needed, again away from the border.

Note. The UK has made it 100% clear that they will adopt the exact same standards we currently have within the EU to ensure the above can be done with minimal disruption.

The economies of Ireland and Northern Ireland require the above to be implemented and they will be imo and the talks to do this between the UK government, Dublin and Brussels is well underway, they have admitted as much.

I don’t know if the 2% figure is correct but I shall take your word for it. Even if it is 0.1% they will need infrastructure/staff to do the checks and something will have to be put into place.

I’m not saying they’ll be miles of trucks, there may well be at Calais/Dover, as both governments are preparing for it but my main concern is the GFA here.

The bit I’ve highlighted in your post is what the backstop does. It’s the insurance policy both parties have to ensure we have the same terms/standards when it comes to customs.

If this solution is a mere 3 years away, why don’t we just accept the Withdrawal Agreement, get on with implementing the solution and then we can try and move forward beyond this horrendous decade in British history?

 

[cibaman]

Cheers

But do you accept that if this current government gets Brexit through the chance of a Labour Government goes out of the window for another 5 years. That would be 15 years of Tory lead/Tory Government and with the likes of McVey, Truss, Patel in the Cabinet this current set-up couldn’t be further from traditional Labour values

That’s the circle I struggle to square. Don’t Leave and we have a (slim) chance of a Labour Government(forget Corbyn this is a thought experiment) but if we do Leave we have no chance of a Labour Government and Tories on steroids - you see where I’m coming from?

If we leave with No Deal, the ensuing disruption would, in my opinion, guarantee that Labour wins the following election. Even if they were to replace Corbyn with Abbott