Another new Brexit thread

[Blue Hefner]

With Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum in charge of the Labour party i have no interest in seeing them in power.

That’s why I said, thought experiment. If a Labour Party such as Blair 1997, 2001 was in Opposition would your view change. Let’s not get hung up on the actual personnel it’s more the general point of Labour(to your likening) and Remain or current Tories on steroids and Leave

 

[Blue Hefner]

If we leave with No Deal, the ensuing disruption would, in my opinion, guarantee that Labour wins the following election. Even if they were to replace Corbyn with Abbott

I don’t think so. The disruption would be blamed on 1) the EU creating more of a nationalist view and 2) ‘this is what you voted for(source: Ledsom and Hunt 2019). But no one wants to think they are responsible so will defer to option 1 and we will get through with ‘optimism’ and the D-Day spirit

 

[Fred_Quimby]

???

Where have you been??

To start with the utterly poisonous backstop must be removed

Have you not heard or read that

Don’t patronise me. Of course I have heard and read about it. What I was asking was has he a plan instead? Indeed have you? Some people on here are ostriches who believe sticking their fingers in their ears and saying the same thing over and over again will make it either right or make it go away. Unfortunately Brexit isn’t like that. And as I said the people who will suffer the most are not those in the Tory party.

 

[blueinsa]

The bit I’ve highlighted in your post is what the backstop does. It’s the insurance policy both parties have to ensure we have the same terms/standards when it comes to customs.

If this solution is a mere 3 years away, why don’t we just accept the Withdrawal Agreement, get on with implementing the solution and then we can try and move forward beyond this horrendous decade in British history?

Politically it is neither acceptable to MP's on all sides of the house and debate because it binds the UK into the EU and relies 100% on having the permission of the EU to leave in the event of no agreement being reached.

Its dead and will never be agreed to.

There are 5 BIP's, 3 in the ROI and 2 in NI based at major ports and airports. It perfectly feasable to build additional BIP's away from the border on either side where sanitary and phytosanitary checks can be done keeping in mind the UK will adopt the exact same EU standards we currently share for animal welfare and food.

The CTA will ensure the FOM will never change.

 

[blueinsa]

That’s why I said, thought experiment. If a Labour Party such as Blair 1997, 2001 was in Opposition would your view change. Let’s not get hung up on the actual personnel it’s more the general point of Labour(to your likening) and Remain or current Tories on steroids and Leave

My view wont change because we have had a democratic referendum and the result needs to be implemented.

Id be of the exact same opinion regardless of the government.

 

[Blue Hefner]

My view wont change because we have had a democratic referendum and the result needs to be implemented.

Id be of the exact same opinion regardless of the government.

Fair enough

I can’t agree. The consequences of a Brexit under this lot are going to be pretty terrible for those that can least afford them to be

 

[Vic]

Nicky Morgan!

That is your answer and its been given countless times.

By all means disagree and dismiss but dont then say you haven't been given an answer because you have.

If Nicky Morgan is the answer you must be asking the wrong question.

 

[blueinsa]

If Nicky Morgan is the answer you must be asking the wrong question.

The poster i replied to knows what it is i was referencing to.

You do as well i believe?

 

[Rascal]

We have to leave because democracy must be accepted, however I do fear for the nation under Johnson, I simply do not trust him to put the nation before his ambition.

 

[west didsblue]

Correct - the only mandate us to Leave - the rest of the stuff - hard or soft - are just consequences of the negoiations

As is the backstop.

 

[blueinsa]

We have to leave because democracy must be accepted

This.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Your argument is based on every single wagon/shipment being stopped and searched.

That is not based on any reality whatsoever and does not reflect the way goods are moved around the globe on a daily basis.

Southampton is our biggest port for trade from outside the EU and currently less that 2% of shipments are physically checked, often intelligence led.

That picture will be repeated worldwide.

I get that a picture has been painted of miles and miles of trucks parked up, waiting for a man to go through them checking everything i do but it isn't based on reality and never will be.

Why? because the world would literally stop if it did.

Goods and shipments coming into Ireland via ports will be subject to the normal levels of checks as they are today, away from the border and sites will be set up to ensure sanitary and phytosanitary checks are done where needed, again away from the border.

Note. The UK has made it 100% clear that they will adopt the exact same standards we currently have within the EU to ensure the above can be done with minimal disruption.

The economies of Ireland and Northern Ireland require the above to be implemented and they will be imo and the talks to do this between the UK government, Dublin and Brussels is well underway, they have admitted as much.

Oh dear........

.


This is the Swiss Border......The Swiss border requires hard infrastructure because the country is not in the EU VAT regime nor its customs union. Blueinsa seems to think that the UK border will be manned by Unicorns,

 

[blueinsa]

Oh dear........

.


This is the Swiss Border......The Swiss border requires hard infrastructure because the country is not in the EU VAT regime nor its customs union. Blueinsa seems to think that the UK border will be manned by Unicorns,

Told you how it will be done, as have Dublin and Brussels and London if you care to listen and not one mention of unicorns anywhere except for in your head.

If you think that picture will be replicated in Ireland then who am I to argue?

Best of luck though...

 

[Fred_Quimby]

What do we put in place of the backstop is my question? How do we control the flow of goods and people crossing our border in Norther Ireland?

I asked this last year and, as yet, have not received a credible answer. Quite simple really. I live in an area where almost the only people working in the agricultural industry are ‘foreign’. Who will do the jobs if they don’t? The unemployment rate around here is one of the lowest in the country (currently around 1000 - not enough to cover the loss if they could all work) so who would you get to do it. The Brits would only do it if you paid them more (not a bad idea I hear you say for an industry notorious for its low pay) but it would have to be paid in higher prices and we know from experience what happens when foreign goods are cheaper than our own. This could lead, like our cotton industry to name but one, to empty field. Don’t tell me this will not happen because it has many times in the past and is why we manufacture so few goods.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Your argument is based on every single wagon/shipment being stopped and searched.

That is not based on any reality whatsoever and does not reflect the way goods are moved around the globe on a daily basis.

Southampton is our biggest port for trade from outside the EU and currently less that 2% of shipments are physically checked, often intelligence led.

That picture will be repeated worldwide.

I get that a picture has been painted of miles and miles of trucks parked up, waiting for a man to go through them checking everything i do but it isn't based on reality and never will be.

Why? because the world would literally stop if it did.

Goods and shipments coming into Ireland via ports will be subject to the normal levels of checks as they are today, away from the border and sites will be set up to ensure sanitary and phytosanitary checks are done where needed, again away from the border.

Note. The UK has made it 100% clear that they will adopt the exact same standards we currently have within the EU to ensure the above can be done with minimal disruption.

The economies of Ireland and Northern Ireland require the above to be implemented and they will be imo and the talks to do this between the UK government, Dublin and Brussels is well underway, they have admitted as much.

Of course you are right blueinsa as you always think you are. The reason why we only check so few is because a) we are in the EU and most of our trade is with them and b) most of the nations we trade with have agreements with the EU something we don’t currently have and will not have on 31 October.

 

[yerwot?]

"utterly poisonous backstop" or, the very last rabbit out of the hat, the final straw, the last throw of the dice...... soon to join the museum of failed whoppers . which badly needs an extension to cope with the avalanche of lies that desperation brings.
The day after the ref. brexits were full of shrill gloating, "See nothin's 'appened, remainers were lyyyiiin' ", fully expect similar, defending johnson, ( probably the biggest insult of all....defending boris ... fuckin' 'ell, talk about a moral vacuum)
Pity this " ace" stayed in the emergency measures locker and not on the side of a bus BEFORE the ref. same with the entire brexit plot tbh, now the lies have settled in the mud at the bottom of the pond and it becomes crystal clear that the GFA and the destruction of workers rights , through a no-deal amputation, is the raison d'etre of brexit. Always suspected, vehemently denied, hidden 'til now, smokescreen after smokescreen from 79,000,000 Turks to the 350,000,000 for the NHS, the "death of democracy" joke, and the entire farago of fairy tales that is brexit. The leaders of brexit know this is a one-shot shit-or-bust smash and grab, the wrapping has been stripped off, the poisoned chalice is in full view, opponents will not be so disorganised, the public aware of the lies they have been fed, and that they are the collateral that will be damaged on the whim of a handful of billionaire tories and the dregs of thatcherism. There is no justifiable, honest, sane argument against revoking the wa, just petulant cries of brexit means brexit, stamping of feet and the demonstrations by the tommy robinson thugs, and tweets from the worst president in the history of the USA,
Nearly forgot, the pompous , pious , preaching , condescending , faux intellectual, self-aggrandising , shallow prose (lifted from "How to make friends and influence people", and " How to sell more vacuum cleaners" ) that somehow achieves the very opposite of the intention....

 

[blueinsa]

Of course you are right blueinsa as you always think you are. The reason why we only check so few is because a) we are in the EU and most of our trade is with them and b) most of the nations we trade with have agreements with the EU something we don’t currently have and will not have on 31 October.

Did you miss the bit where i said Southampton is our biggest port for NON EU goods and that we only check 2% of them currently, often intelligence led?

Trade will continue and to suggest anything other is for the birds.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

Did you miss the bit where i said Southampton is our biggest port for NON EU goods and that we only check 2% of them currently, often intelligence led?

Trade will continue and to suggest anything other is for the birds.

And you missed the bit that said the EU have agreements with most of the nations we trade with.

 

[Metal Biker]

What do we put in place of the backstop is my question? How do we control the flow of goods and people crossing our border in Norther Ireland?

I asked this last year and, as yet, have not received a credible answer. Quite simple really. I live in an area where almost the only people working in the agricultural industry are ‘foreign’. Who will do the jobs if they don’t? The unemployment rate around here is one of the lowest in the country (currently around 1000 - not enough to cover the loss if they could all work) so who would you get to do it. The Brits would only do it if you paid them more (not a bad idea I hear you say for an industry notorious for its low pay) but it would have to be paid in higher prices and we know from experience what happens when foreign goods are cheaper than our own. This could lead, like our cotton industry to name but one, to empty field. Don’t tell me this will not happen because it has many times in the past and is why we manufacture so few goods.

How do we control it now?

 

[inbetween]

Maybe anyone who does contribute to campaign should be obliged to declare it like Soros did. I'm pretty sure the Russian government didn't.

I'm finding it odd that people are defending the rights of foreign governments to clandestinely interfere in our democracy just because it helped their side of the argument.

I'm not defending foreign interference, I just don't think you can do anything about it because we live in a free world and a free country.

No-one is overly bothered about it except for those who are annoyed at losing. The reason why not many are bothered is because they voted freely and did so through their own reasoning.

No-one on the remain side is arguing on foreign interference from their side, eg, Obama standing on a platform and threatening bad consequences if we voted to leave. The current president has promised the reverse so Obamas words clearly may not be true.

It is upto voters to make up their mind but if you start banning information then you are saying that voters are just too stupid to be trusted with it.