Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
aguero93:20 said:
I'm sorry, did I offend you by suggesting the US aren't in a position to dictate? Is their global position that important to you?
Click to expand...
Not at all.

It was just the usual rhetoric of the current EU mindset i've come to expect from it's supporters, of wanting to see itself as on an equal par with a world superpower when that was not the intention of the group we voted to join. It was about boosting economies and making trade and work opportunities fairer and easier. Now some of it's members have delusions of granduer and wish to be seen as the ones to dictate world policy, enter trade deals on their terms. Not exactly a friendly open approach when you say to the world "we'll do a trade deal, but you'll agree to my terms, not the other way around".

I dunno, there's just something "imperial" about that sort of attitude that makes me vomit.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Not at all.

It was just the usual rhetoric of the current EU mindset i've come to expect from it's supporters, of wanting to see itself as on an equal par with a world superpower when that was not the intention of the group we voted to join. It was about boosting economies and making trade and work opportunities fairer and easier. Now some of it's members have delusions of granduer and wish to be seen as the ones to dictate world policy, enter trade deals on their terms. Not exactly a friendly open approach when you say to the world "we'll do a trade deal, but you'll agree to my terms, not the other way around".

I dunno, there's just something "imperial" about that sort of attitude that makes me vomit.
Click to expand...
The EU is on a par economically with the US and China. Why pretend otherwise.
 
Not sure if this has already been answered but. If Boris doesn’t get the backstop removed and parliament doesn’t approve a no deal on 31st Oct. what happens?

If Boris doesn’t ask for an extension, which he won’t by the sounds of it, do we just leave anyway if he just does nothing?
 
Hesperus said:
Not sure if this has already been answered but. If Boris doesn’t get the backstop removed and parliament doesn’t approve a no deal on 31st Oct. what happens?

If Boris doesn’t ask for an extension, which he won’t by the sounds of it, do we just leave anyway if he just does nothing?
Click to expand...
That's the default position unless something else transpires, yes.
 
Hesperus said:
Not sure if this has already been answered but. If Boris doesn’t get the backstop removed and parliament doesn’t approve a no deal on 31st Oct. what happens?

If Boris doesn’t ask for an extension, which he won’t by the sounds of it, do we just leave anyway if he just does nothing?
Click to expand...
He will lose a vote of no confidence and we head for a GE. My guess is that he’s already preparing for it now. He’ll blame the EU for not amending the WA and Parliament for stopping no deal, then he’ll wipe the floor with Corbyn in the election campaign.
 
Thanks for the replies, but unless the election happens before 31st October then it would still happen I guess since it’s currently law? Which means a GE is going to have to be triggered quite quick and a small nUmber of Tory’s are going to have to fall on their swords, resign from the party in order for Boris to lose a confidence vote.

If a GE happens I think Boris will do a deal with the Brexit party and get a parliamentary majority for a no deal get it through.
 
Hesperus said:
Not sure if this has already been answered but. If Boris doesn’t get the backstop removed and parliament doesn’t approve a no deal on 31st Oct. what happens?

If Boris doesn’t ask for an extension, which he won’t by the sounds of it, do we just leave anyway if he just does nothing?
Click to expand...

His first act was to close Parliament and send them on holiday for 6 weeks. It wouldn't look great if his second act, once he got back, was to sit there and do nothing until 31st October
 
Blue Hefner said:
His first act was to close Parliament and send them on holiday for 6 weeks. It wouldn't look great if his second act, once he got back, was to sit there and do nothing until 31st October
Click to expand...

Not suggesting he’ll do nothing from now until 31st. I’m sure he’ll push the EU right to the last second to resolve the backstop but if they refuse to budge, he can just say, well I’ve done everything I can so we leave on a no deal and there is nothing parliament can do about it.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Not at all.

It was just the usual rhetoric of the current EU mindset i've come to expect from it's supporters, of wanting to see itself as on an equal par with a world superpower when that was not the intention of the group we voted to join. It was about boosting economies and making trade and work opportunities fairer and easier. Now some of it's members have delusions of granduer and wish to be seen as the ones to dictate world policy, enter trade deals on their terms. Not exactly a friendly open approach when you say to the world "we'll do a trade deal, but you'll agree to my terms, not the other way around".
Click to expand...

That’s not how it works. None of the three ‘gravity’ centers, US, EU, China, can dictate absolutely what they want but they do have immense leverage because for the smaller countries there is a greater need to access the bigger and more lucrative market. The US didn’t get everything it wanted in NAFTA II because individual States have a big say in trade deals and pushing the smaller countries too hard would have been counter productive and could have impacted individual States interests and US interests overall. Also smaller countries have to sell the deal domestically so they have to show something for their efforts or the deal collapses and everyone reverts back to the status quo. You could see something of the dynamic in the EU/UK withdrawal negotiotions where the UK did score a win by getting the EU to accept the UK version of the backstop. The EU isn’t keen on its current form as they feel it concedes too much to the UK and preferred their initial NI version. That the UK couldn’t sell this to their own domestic audience is for the EU somewhat bizarre and feeds into the EU perception that the UK is no longer a rational actor which, to be fair, is largely true. We lost the plot months ago. No rational actor would set the fallback status quo option ablaze and then undertake complex multi-nation talks with a self imposed time limit with no internal consensus and ultimately with no working political majority.

What the EU does better than the other two blocs is export it’s standards beyond its borders largely because US priorities and focus changes with different admins whereas in the EU external trade policy is constant. GDPR is an example of getting non EU countries to accept EU standards. This ability to get the rest of the world to accept its standards is where the EU does have some real muscle and is why ultimately the UK is likely to remain within the EU regulatory sphere.

Just as Mexico and Canada have to manage the big beast of the US on their doorstep so ultimately will we with the EU. Whether we do that as a member or as nation within the trade gravity orbit of the EU remains to be seen.
 
Hesperus said:
Not suggesting he’ll do nothing from now until 31st. I’m sure he’ll push the EU right to the last second to resolve the backstop but if they refuse to budge, he can just say, well I’ve done everything I can so we leave on a no deal and there is nothing parliament can do about it.
Click to expand...

All possible and nothing can be ruled out I guess but if this does happen we end up with the big question. What does the UK do next?
 
hgblue said:
He will lose a vote of no confidence and we head for a GE. My guess is that he’s already preparing for it now. He’ll blame the EU for not amending the WA and Parliament for stopping no deal, then he’ll wipe the floor with Corbyn in the election campaign.
Click to expand...

He knows a majority of the electorate and I'm certain on this will also blame the EU and vote accordingly.

The rights or wrongs of that are for debate but it will happen.
 
blueinsa said:
He knows a majority of the electorate and I'm certain on this will also blame the EU and vote accordingly.

The rights or wrongs of that are for debate but it will happen.
Click to expand...

That the EU will be blamed for everything is true. And the Germans and the French. And Europeans in general. That’s the thing about always blaming your ills on others is that you never run out of ‘others’ to blame.
 
BobKowalski said:
That the EU will be blamed for everything is true. And the Germans and the French. And Europeans in general. That’s the thing about always blaming your ills on others is that you never run out of ‘others’ to blame.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh twas ever thus as a look through every single thread in this forum will prove.

Socialist this, communist that, leaver this, remainer that.

I wont even mention the Tories.

Isn't it fun though? ;-)
 
blueinsa said:
Ahhhh twas ever thus as a look through every single thread in this forum will prove.

Socialist this, communist that, leaver this, remainer that.

I wont even mention the Tories.

Isn't it fun though? ;-)
Click to expand...

God knows I’m not adverse to dishing out the verbals but looking at it objectively I know this shit is corrosive and it isn’t going to end well. But I intend for it to end well for my side of the divide so I’m no better in truth even if my cause is just :)
 
BobKowalski said:
God knows I’m not adverse to dishing out the verbals but looking at it objectively I know this shit is corrosive and it isn’t going to end well. But I intend for it to end well for my side of the divide so I’m no better in truth even if my cause is just :)
Click to expand...

All is fair in love and war.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top