Donald Trump

[Dax777]

@Bigga and @Vic I shall return shortly. Your responses have been very instructive.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I like blue. I like David Silva. I'm Spanish. Dave's my uncle. My sister is Dave's Girlfriend. I lost a bet and now I have to pay by wearing a Dave shirt.

The possibilities are endless. Which is the point. To always make a tenous argument for racism where other reasons are more readily available and explain the situation more fully, is a frighteningly more common form of argument that has taken over since the mid 2000s on.

This is scary and unfortunate :(

But . . . but . . . You said you were an Occam’s Razor guy!!!!!

I get where you’re going — “You’re a racist” has become a catch-all criticism that stifles dissent — but that isn’t my point. What’s irritating is that you know that’s not my point. My point all along has been that some of Trumps' least shakeable support base has demonstrated that they are indeed racists, and his policies appeal to them, as do his words. And they don’t just appear out of thin air. They are crafted to appeal to them.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I could not find a word I disagree with here.

Right. The difference is that it isn't as important to you as it is to me. You think his character disqualifies you from voting for him, whereas I think his character is the specific reason to vote against him.

 

[SWP's back]

Seems legit......

The US never joined the blockade. As much as I hate Trump, that’s false.

 

[Dax777]

Right. The difference is that it isn't as important to you as it is to me. You think his character disqualifies you from voting for him, whereas I think his character is the specific reason to vote against him.

I think you've perfectly expressed our difference here.

 

[Dax777]

But . . . but . . . You said you were an Occam’s Razor guy!!!!!

I get where you’re going — “You’re a racist” has become a catch-all criticism that stifles dissent — but that isn’t my point. What’s irritating is that you know that’s not my point. My point all along has been that some of Trumps' least shakeable support base has demonstrated that they are indeed racists, and his policies appeal to them, as do his words. And they don’t just appear out of thin air. They are crafted to appeal to them.

I am. I was just showing that that hypothetical required a 2nd level question. But the O.R. would be that I lied. And I'm really a City fan.

I know your point. And when I ask for example I do so in order to view the facts you have viewed so I can draw my own conclusions from same facts.
Rather than assume the truth of your conclusions from facts I haven't seen.

I disagree on the third highlight. I think Trump's least shakable support comes from non-elite conservatives. Their pain and pocket is what drives them, big racism

 

[Bigga]

Folks are going to need to make up their mind here. Is he pandering to white nationalists and Racists or is he pandering to blacks? Doing both guarantees he loses both sides. Unless, that is there is a different explanation. You know, a more obvious one that fits the bill. Hmmmm! What could that be?

As I see it there is a serious Injustice being perpetrated in Sweden against an American. Granted, I have issues with the fact it's a popular American, which speaks to issues of 'class'. But that aside, I am happy he is stepping in or trying to in these situations.

I've seen the videos and the Swede was clearly the instigator. That he is walking free and ASAP Rocky is in jail is a travesty to say the least. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

In short, my position on the issue is fuck Sweden and everything they stand for.

A fooking 'travesty'...?? Is this a piss take?

How does this stack up against injustice at home...? The 'Central Park Five' is a really good example.

"But, wait, my famous rich African American is dark and I offset the "send her home" shit storm by trying to get another darkie out of prison!"...

1. He likes Kanye West. He is not sucking up. He is using his power to help his friends. ( This by the way is terrible, but still a far cry from the 'pandering' claim)

2. Any black person who doesn't tow the liberal line often gets vilified. Thus, Kanye West has been getting it since he came out and said he supports Trump in 2016. His been accused of being off his meds, losing it or just promoting his album by being controversial e.t.c. As far as politics go, the Left (especially the black left)are working 24-7 to discredit Kanye or any non-white who dsare supports Trump. See Don Lemon, April Ryan, Whoopee Goldberg, etc. For examples of Kanye bashing. This is neither new nor surprising.

3. For the record, Trump is an egomaniacal narcissist. And anything that makes him look like a power broker or someone who can make things happen, he does. It's really that simple. It's about his ego.

This isn't the first time he is doing something like this btw. He did the same with Lonzo Ball's kid brother and his UCLA teammates when they got jailed in China for shoplifting. Trump stepped in and pulled weight.

When Kanye's wife wanted a federal pardon for a Grandma who was jailed for a first time offense of drug trafficking, he granted it.

The woman was convicted under the mandatory minimum laws set up by Clinton (a Democrat) and her appeal was denied by Obama (a black Democrat) in 2017.

This inspite of the initiatives under Obama to release or reduce sentencing for drug offenders with minimum mandatory long sentences . Yet even when leaving with nothing to lose, Obama said Nope... Pass... despite the urging of 6 Congresspeople, her jail Warden, and a US Attorney.

Trump? Granted it immediately. And signed the first recommendation for prison reform. There is a lot to be said about what's horrible about Trump. See @FogBlueInSanFran for some candid personal descriptions of the man's failings. Petulant, childish, egotistical, etc. All of that very well underpins and explains his actions.

The claims of a calculated 'half racist' 'half black panderer' on the other hand? Just doesn't fit the facts. One will have to keep twisting logic and common sense to match that theory to reality.

But I see many here and elsewhere are trying their darndest. A for effort fellas. But It just doesn't fit.

He's a PANDERER!!

He's one of those idiots that speaks with 'forked tongue'. You know, praises you to your face and talks sh*t not even behind your back, but to the person next to you!

He needs love and hates to be hated. It's why he fudges opinion and numbers so much!

Get a grip! You surely see this?

This guy………

And Pres O got sh*t for his tan suit...

 

[Dax777]

@FogBlueInSanFran on a separate note I'd like to hear your view on the HHS report. Perhaps we can go PM for that.

Don't want to clog up Trumpistan with wonky report discussions no one cares about ;)

 

[Dax777]

A fooking 'travesty'...?? Is this a piss take?

How does this stack up against injustice at home...? The 'Central Park Five' is a really good example.

"But, wait, my famous rich African American is dark and I offset the "send her home" shit storm by trying to get another darkie out of prison!"...



He's a PANDERER!!

He's one of those idiots that speaks with 'forked tongue'. You know, praises you to your face and talks sh*t not even behind your back, but to the person next to you!

He needs love and hates to be hated. It's why he fudges opinion and numbers so much!

Get a grip! You surely see this?



And Pres O got sh*t for his tan suit...

Alright some Bigga time. :)

 

[Bigga]

I forgot to reply to this earlier, but the trouble is with this statement, in my original reply, if it wasn't for Scarborough stopping him in his tracks, we'd have heard MORE about why he's rather vote for #45, than a Democratic Socialist trying to make things better for his nation.

Could give two fooks about DD's constant non-committal positioning.

 

[urban genie]

Never thought this thread could turn into a bigger pantomine than the orange fuckwit himself.

 

[SWP's back]

It took some finding among the right wing praise for Trump's action granting a pardon, but really "first time offense of drug trafficking" hardly does justice to what she was convicted for (effectively running the operation for several years), but I suspect you knew that. As loads of people had been released under Obama's clemency program, wouldn't you query why she wasn't? And why thousands whose cases aren't championed by Kim Kardashian are still in prison? And, most bizarrely, if Trump had his way, she'd have been executed 20 years ago, not in prison. https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ut-all-the-reasons-why-thats-a-terrible-idea/

Great post.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I am. I was just showing that that hypothetical required a 2nd level question. But the O.R. would be that I lied. And I'm really a City fan.

I know your point. And when I ask for example I do so in order to view the facts you have viewed so I can draw my own conclusions from same facts.
Rather than assume the truth of your conclusions from facts I haven't seen.

I disagree on the third highlight. I think Trump's least shakable support comes from non-elite conservatives. Their pain and pocket is what drives them, big racism

No, what drives them is the desire for revenge on those they perceived have wronged them.

They'd happily take exactly the same lives they have now as long as their "enemies" suffer more.

 

[Dax777]

Oh, I've been away for a short while, but I'm back to delve in...



Erm... So what were the GOP doing to Obama's terms for 8 years?? Obstructing his programs. Because they believed it wasn't helpful or as a political tactic. Let's assume it was the latter. So Democrats doing that now is just as bad,no? So why so the praise?




What does this mean?

Are you talking about the individual or the collective... Or both...?

That I believe was a response to someone who thought those who agree with Trump were hurting themselves due to being uneducated. Was simply pointing out that many hurt themselves, including the so called 'educated'

 

[Dax777]

No, what drives them is the desire for revenge on those they perceived have wronged them.

They'd happily take exactly the same lives they have now as long as their "enemies" suffer more.

I suppose their are people who will agree with this. I'm not sure how many or what in particular that says...

For the majority though, their own lives getting better or the perception that it will is what drives them.

 

[Dax777]

A fooking 'travesty'...?? Is this a piss take?

How does this stack up against injustice at home...? The 'Central Park Five' is a really good example.

No, it's not a piss take. Compared to the Central Park 5? Why would I compare a street fight to a heinous crime?

The Injustice in the CP 5 case was a lack of evidence. The Injustice here is a zealot prosecution in spite of clear evidence to the contrary.

The aggressor has been freed while the one who defended himself is in jail. Yes, that's a travesty.

"But, wait, my famous rich African American is dark and I offset the "send her home" shit storm by trying to get another darkie out of prison!"...

Just because you think that's how others view black people doesn't mean you are right. It's just you.

Here is how a common sense person will view it.


Ilhan Omar sucks."Nor black people. But Ilhan Omar. Sure she's black. But just like white people and Asian people and Hispanic people,some black people suck too. I know this might be news to you.


Omar Sucks! I'm going to call her out. "Hey fuckwit how about you shut the F up with the whinning. You know what, do us all a favor, how about you fuck off back to where you came from, fix the shit hole, and then come back and teach us how to fix things here, ok?"

That by the way was the full context of his rant. Read in it's full context, it's a "fuck you" and "you don't know shit" attack.

He's a PANDERER!!

How do you define panderer. That might be the distinction here.

He's one of those that speaks with 'forked tongue'. You know, praises you to your face and talks sh*t not even behind your back, but to the person next to you!

He needs love and hates to be hated. It's why he fudges opinion and numbers so much!

Get a grip! You surely see this?

Yes, this is what drives him. I've said so multiple times and agreed with multiple people who said similar.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Brah, I went to college in the States, I know what racism is and isn't. :)

You just can't separate situationally racist behaviour (trying to fit in, or appeal to a group or individual), and plain racist behaviour. If someone knowingly says or does something racist, for whatever reason, they are a racist.

Trump is a racist.

 

[Dax777]

It took some finding among the right wing praise for Trump's action granting a pardon, but really "first time offense of drug trafficking" hardly does justice to what she was convicted for (effectively running the operation for several years), but I suspect you knew that. As loads of people had been released under Obama's clemency program, wouldn't you query why she wasn't? And why thousands whose cases aren't championed by Kim Kardashian are still in prison? And, most bizarrely, if Trump had his way, she'd have been executed 20 years ago, not in prison. https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ut-all-the-reasons-why-thats-a-terrible-idea/

Again, I let the facts dictate what I believe.

Perhaps her words are instructive here:

"I want this part to be clear: I acknowledge that I have done wrong. I made the biggest mistake of my life to make ends meet and got involved with people selling drugs.

This was a road I never dreamed of venturing down. I became what is called a telephone mule, passing messages between the distributors and sellers. I participated in a drug conspiracy, and I was wrong"

Hardly, what I'd call "effectively running the organization" but if that's your view fair enough. On a side note her home was foreclosed on in 1991 because she could not pay her mortgage. Hardly the kind of stuff you'd expect from someone running a drug trafficking show.

My sense is she was the unsuspecting in-between who also laundered the money for the outfit.

Again, here is how she describes her conviction:

"I am only one of thousands of first-time, nonviolent offenders given mandatory and lengthy prison terms"

I did not minimize the facts, I simply expressed them as best they've been described previously. By her and the guidelines under which she was sentenced

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I suppose their are people who will agree with this. I'm not sure how many or what in particular that says...

For the majority though, their own lives getting better or the perception that it will is what drives them.

No. It isn't. Unless one defines my life getting better by someone else's life getting worse.

As an example, you stipulated before that it is the non-elite conservatives who are his base. The average percent of Americans in the bottom 80% percentile of wealth who own stocks? 7%. In the top 10%? 84%.

The stock market has no impact on his "base" . . . EXCEPT that's its rise has confounded the expectations of Trump critics. This is what the politics of division are all about. It's owning the libs.

That's why you are willing to forgive his character -- because, emotionally, you're winning.

 

[SWP's back]

Again, I let the facts dictate what I believe.

Perhaps her words are instructive here:

"I want this part to be clear: I acknowledge that I have done wrong. I made the biggest mistake of my life to make ends meet and got involved with people selling drugs.

This was a road I never dreamed of venturing down. I became what is called a telephone mule, passing messages between the distributors and sellers. I participated in a drug conspiracy, and I was wrong"

Hardly, what I'd call "effectively running the organization" but if that's your view fair enough. On a side note her home was foreclosed on in 1991 because she could not pay her mortgage. Hardly the kind of stuff you'd expect from someone running a drug trafficking show.

My sense is she was the unsuspecting in-between who also laundered the money for the outfit.

Again, here is how she describes her conviction:

"I am only one of thousands of first-time, nonviolent offenders given mandatory and lengthy prison terms"

I did not minimize the facts, I simply expressed them as best they've been described previously. By her and the guidelines under which she was sentenced

Do you really think someone can be classed a first time offender if they have been breaking the law for years and simply hadn’t been previously caught?

Do you think that it’s right and proper that if you know someone famous (who has the ear of the President), you have a better chance of being pardoned?