Donald Trump

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Seems legit......

 

[Dax777]

So you're saying he cant be racist if he does something to help a black man that also benefits him? Not as 'pardon the pun' black and white as that

I said no such thing. That's just your framing. What I have said is that the evidence doesn't support the claim the 2 posters made. I.e. That he is a racist, and attempts to help Rocky are just getting

It's not on me to disprove the claims against him. Rather it's on those who are making the claim to explain why the evidence doesn't seem to support their claims.. So far a lot of the evidence we are seeing doesn't support their narrative.Whether someone doing this can hypothetical be a closet white nationalist is besides the point.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I said no such thing. That's just your framing. What I have said is that the evidence doesn't support the claim the 2 posters made. I.e. That he is a racist, and attempts to help Rocky are just getting

It's not on me to disprove the claims against him. Rather it's on those who are making the claim to explain why the evidence doesn't seem to support their claims.. So far a lot of the evidence we are seeing doesn't support their narrative.Whether someone doing this can hypothetical be a closet white nationalist is besides the point.

I'm at a loss here. Are you holding him to a different standard?

To name but a few examples;
Housing discrimination based on race,
Central Park 5 (he still hasn't apologised),
Charlotesville, where he refused to condemn blatant racism,

And this comment heard from his mouth “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.” is the textbook definition of racism.

OED Definition of Racism

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I'm not sneering. I'm expressing a different opinion. While putting prior opinions to test with the facts. I welcome anyone and everyone to do the same with my opinions. As @FogBlueInSanFran has clearly attempted to above.

I don't consider his attempt a sneer. If you think my examination of your opinion was a sneer, I apologise. That was not my intent. Rather, I'm pro examination of facts. Not because I like Trump. But rather on the principle that all claims should be fairly examined.

One day it might be you or I in the eye of of the popular storm. If such a day ever comes, I'd hope that those for and against whatever position you or I hold have the principle to examine the claim or claims being made in the clear light of facts and truth.

It did when I read it. I accept your comment that you did not mean to.

I think the point here is probably what is understood by "he is a racist". Very very few people would be 100% racist. He happily and thoughtlessly uses racist language and racism-encouraging lies, that appears clear to me.

I'm not sure if I've called him a racist; if I did, I think it was loose language. I don't think I did in the comment which I made about pandering, and comparing my opinion to somebody else's is illogical.

He's an amoral bully, driven by his own all-consuming ego and greed, happy to use any and all methods to puff himself up, and to please the people who have their hooks in him. I do not think that he has any principles or scruples in what he does or how he goes about it, or who suffers from his behaviour.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

I am being perfectly, 100% honest when I say this is the first and only time I have ever kind of liked this guy. At least it shows he can make fun of himself. Where the hell is this Trump now?

SNL skit isnt it?

 

[Bigga]

Oh, I've been away for a short while, but I'm back to delve in...

They can work on and pass Plain bills that is supported by most Americans rather than try wrapping them in some of their social agenda bills. But they won't. I guess its more important to use bills as tactical manuevers for future elections than it is to use them as an attempt to solve problems

Erm... So what were the GOP doing to Obama's terms for 8 years??

Fook anything that arsehole, Deutsch, has to say on ANYTHING!

No. You think that. They don't. They don't spend their time worrying about other people's money. They are trying to survive, grow small businesses, raise a family, help their community and more.

They don't spend much of their time pontificating about the conspiratorial views of any news agency. And sure while that includes Fox, it also includes MSNBC, CNN, the Guardian, BBC and any other of the one sided curated for the masses nonsense.


And just for the record, a lot of them had their taxes go up under Obama. Or to put it more accurately, their taxes went down under Trump.

Even the so called intellectual professional's. Side story a few months back and Anaesthesiologist friend of mine called me up worried the IRS might come after her coz she got a 43000 tax return.

Even I thought nah, it has to be an error. So I helped her look through it and it seemed right. Called the IRS just to make sure. They sent her a letter later explaining the return. In short it was a mixture of her overwitholding and Trump cuts. She loved it. Still hates him though and will be voting against him next year. Especially if the Dems nominate a woman or a person of color. To which I nodded cool.

Working against one's self interest isn't limited to the uneducated. The elite are even worse.

What does this mean?

Are you talking about the individual or the collective... Or both...?

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Oh, I've been away for a short while, but I'm back to delve in...
Fook anything that arsehole, Deutsch, has to say on ANYTHING!

Deutch is an asshole, but he does make a fair point.

 

[Vic]

This guy………

Who needs Alec Baldwin to take the piss?

 

[Bigga]

Deutch is an asshole, but he does make a fair point.

I'm sorry, maybe my hatred for the wt@ is dulling my senses.

On what does he have a 'fair point' on...?

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I'm sorry, maybe my hatred for the wt@ is dulling my senses.

On what does he have a 'fair point' on...?

 

[Vic]

.....

When Kanye's wife wanted a federal pardon for a Grandma who was jailed for a first time offense of drug trafficking, he granted it.

The woman was convicted under the mandatory minimum laws set up by Clinton (a Democrat) and her appeal was denied by Obama (a black Democrat) in 2017.

This inspite of the initiatives under Obama to release or reduce sentencing for drug offenders with minimum mandatory long sentences . Yet even when leaving with nothing to lose, Obama said Nope... Pass... despite the urging of 6 Congresspeople, her jail Warden, and a US Attorney...

It took some finding among the right wing praise for Trump's action granting a pardon, but really "first time offense of drug trafficking" hardly does justice to what she was convicted for (effectively running the operation for several years), but I suspect you knew that. As loads of people had been released under Obama's clemency program, wouldn't you query why she wasn't? And why thousands whose cases aren't championed by Kim Kardashian are still in prison? And, most bizarrely, if Trump had his way, she'd have been executed 20 years ago, not in prison. https://www.motherjones.com/politic...ut-all-the-reasons-why-thats-a-terrible-idea/

 

[Dax777]

I will return to respond to some of my favorite posters. After the game and a bit of football discussion. Will be back to Trumpistan soon. ;)

 

[Bigga]

They all voted against the border relief appropriation
They all campaigned on abolishing ICE.
They are all young, and inexperienced.

There isn't much In that tweet that's FACTUALLY false. I can't speak to their intelligence as I don't know much about some of them. So the intelligence quip might be an overgeneralization.

I know Trump lies a lot. But even liars have their moments.

"They all voted against the border relief appropriation"- For the very reason that there was NO GUARANTEE that the money appropriated would go to what it was supposed to. Look at how some of the military budget is now allowed to go to the building of The Wall through the SC saying it was part of the 'emergency' claimed for by #45.

"They all campaigned on abolishing ICE" - There is NOTHING ICE do that isn't covered by other laws in other depts to do with security of the homeland.

"They are all young, and inexperienced"- So. Fooking. What?

Right is right, wrong is wrong and the sooner people like yourself stop making excuses for the Asshole-in-Chief, the sooner US gets its Soul back.

 

[Bigga]

That's a first. The one time money is all that was needed, turns out to be the only time Leftist grew a conservative conscience. Lol

But I'm happy that you are at least willing to admit the lives of Innocent children are worth sacrificing on the alter of 'addressing the fundamental issues'

Whatever those are.

I don't think you ACTUALLY understand the issues. It's NOT that the Dems are against funding for the migrants, it's about fearing that funding will be redirected for nefarious purposes than what it should be used for. IF the money will be for the incarcerated migrants, why don't they just guarantee it?

I'll tell you why; cos the current president is a liar as is McConnell.

In fact, who in the GOP 'leadership' who can you ACTUALLY trust...??

 

[Dax777]

I said words and policies, not just policies. And, for the 4,587th time, all one needs is the words. The policies are not relevant once the words are spoken. That's my entire objection to the man.

The wall: There is a legitimate basis for building a wall. The current Caravan migration crisis highlights that. Walls have been effective almost everywhere it's been used. But I suppose that's a different topic.

The census question. There is a strand amongst the Republican ranks that believes the conspiracy theory that Democrats want illegal immigration as an attempt to bolster their voting ranks. There is some smoke to this fire.

"Very fine people on both sides": Again, his reluctance to fall in line with left leaning media framing is part arrogance and part understandable, but it takes little effort to watch the video of that interview and see he condemned White Nationalists and said 'not them'... But there were people "on both sides" of the protest over the removal of historical Statues.

"Go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came." Said to Americans.": Terrible use of dirty tactics to bring Ilhan Omar to the forefront, I agree. But hardly racist. Especially in light of Omar's history and stance.

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best." Mexico is a country that has proximity to the US, they are more likely to send people from all strata of their society in contrast to say india who often migrate some of their most educated to the U.S. Distance and the mindset of the type of person that will migrate this distance differentiates btw what Mexico/Mexicans can do vs say India/Indians. Btw he was talking here about the scourge of Ms13. A deadly gang predominantly out of Mexico. But those who seek to find offense will do so regardless.

Lowering the refugee quota after HHS determined "the net fiscal impact of refugees was positive over the [last] 10-year period, at $63 billion" (I'm close to this one as some of my economic research is in the HHS report).Well, this we should discuss more in depth. As I've read parts of the report in the New York times, criticsms of Trump's teams dismissal of the report, and criticism of the report itself. All three are worthy of discussion. Since you had some input in this then I'd be delighted to get into it. Perhaps you can explain or answer the criticsms of the report.

Then there's this -- related to education and housing -- though one might be prepared to argue the "disparate impact" idea: Yikes! One of the worst legal arguments in the history of the law. But I'm happy to discuss this too

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...d3874f1ac36_story.html?utm_term=.e050e9451b42 I was blocked from reviewing this, but what was it focused on? I know the verbal dexterity of using words that mean the opposite of what it says is quite common on Left leaning reporting. So I'm always wary of such headlines. Is this 'Affurmstive Action' that's been rolled back here in the article?

Happy to find more. Shouldn't be hard. These were off the top of my head: Well we have enough to delve into, but none of the policies are racist. Which in fairness is understandable.

Incidentally, IMO, if you were actually an Occam's Razor kind of guy, you wouldn't be arguing the point.

Finally, I don't understand what you mean by'i won't be arguing the point." Sometimes I do miss the inherently obvious. :)

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

SNL skit isnt it?

Yes.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Finally, I don't understand what you mean by'i won't be arguing the point." Sometimes I do miss the inherently obvious. :)

Why are you responding? The point was to show policies that appeal to racists, and words that do too. There isn’t any argument. There isn’t any rationalization or discussion of whether these are good or bad or indifferent. These policies and words appeal to racists. That’s what you asked for.

Let me put this in a hypothetical you can understand: If you say to me “I support United” and then I see you next week in a City Silva kit, what should I deduce about you?

 

[Dax777]

I'm at a loss here. Are you holding him to a different standard?

To name but a few examples;
Housing discrimination based on race, You failed to mention this was Fred Trump's company. With Donald Trump working at his pleasure.


Central Park 5 (he still hasn't apologised), No he won't apologies. Neither would I have. Asking for apologies is a leftist tactic. Unfortunately, even people who are genuinely remorseful are advised not to apologise. As apology often is deemed an admission of guilt to something more nefarious.

But let me stay on this for a minute... U hate when black folks are equated with thuggery. I hate all thugs. Worked an internship in West Virginia when I was in college and all the drug dealers and runners were white. I hated them all they were a scourge. Their whiteness was irrelevant. A few years later worked at an immigration firm in Harlem, on the way to go see a client on 154, I got held up by 2 thugs, their blackness or mines was irrelevant. I hated all of those thugs too. And I'm sure if feel the same about Mexican thugs or English thugs or middle eastern thugs. All thugs and miscreants make life harder for everyone. Hating this isn't racial. It's human.

Worst still, those who try to blur the distinction between miscreants and any particular group are part of the problem. As thugs often harm the most those who are closest in proximity. I'm tired of listening to media types conflate blacks with thugs.

He was wrong about the CP5, at least that's what is most likely. And when you critically look at it he was wrong about some of them certainly. But being wrong and being racist aren't the same. I simply don't throw racism around so liberally ( no pun intended).

Charlotesville, where he refused to condemn blatant racism, He did. And that has been said a million times.
But on a separate but related note, I am not a fan of (as stated above) cowtailing to the dictates of others. Just like leftist often can't wait to ask Conservatives to condemn this or condemn that. Conservatives do the very same with Liberals asking Omar to condemn Isis and Alqueda, Asking Pressly to condemn Antifa and AOC to condemn communism.

These moves are all tactics. And all of them pass with flying colors. You never do what your opponents are trying to force on you. I don't think Omar is a terrorist because she didn't condemn Alqueda or Pressly a hipster Terrorist either. It goes without saying that they oppose these acts. But they need not cower to the dictates of the opposition.

And this comment heard from his mouth “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.” is the textbook definition of racism. That is racist!!! I agree. But again while I enjoyed this discussion, it misses the original point if this new wave of discussions, i.e are his actions to help A$ap Rocky, those of a racist pandering or are they something else?

OED Definition of Racism

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Brah, I went to college in the States, I know what racism is and isn't. :)

 

[Dax777]

.
He's an amoral bully, driven by his own all-consuming ego and greed, happy to use any and all methods to puff himself up, and to please the people who have their hooks in him. I do not think that he has any principles or scruples in what he does or how he goes about it, or who suffers from his behaviour.

I could not find a word I disagree with here.

 

[Dax777]

Why are you responding? The point was to show policies that appeal to racists, and words that do too. There isn’t any argument. There isn’t any rationalization or discussion of whether these are good or bad or indifferent. These policies and words appeal to racists. That’s what you asked for.

Let me put this in a hypothetical you can understand: If you say to me “I support United” and then I see you next week in a City Silva kit, what should I deduce about you?

I like blue. I like David Silva. I'm Spanish. Dave's my uncle. My sister is Dave's Girlfriend. I lost a bet and now I have to pay by wearing a Dave shirt.

The possibilities are endless. Which is the point. To always make a tenous argument for racism where other reasons are more readily available and explain the situation more fully, is a frighteningly more common form of argument that has taken over since the mid 2000s on.

This is scary and unfortunate :(