Another new Brexit thread

[aguero93:20]

Singapore on Liffey indeed.

Doesn't suit the narrative no?

 

[blueinsa]

Doesn't suit the narrative no?

Your department of Finance dismissing the suggestion isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

Honestly here I'm not that arsed and best of luck to you is what i say its just that you then cant help yourself with the Singapore on Thames quip which frankly opens you up to accusations of hypocrisy but you know that.

Imagine a post brexit world in which all those company profits could stop going to you and come to us because we could attract them?

Isn't that the issue you have in reality?

 

[aguero93:20]

Your department of Finance dismissing the suggestion isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

Honestly here I'm not that arsed and best of luck to you is what i say its just that you then cant help yourself with the Singapore on Thames quip which frankly opens you up to accusations of hypocrisy but you know that.

Imagine a post brexit world in which all those company profits could stop going to you and come to us because we could attract them?

Isn't that the issue you have in reality?

They won't come to you as you'll be locked out of the biggest single market in the world. Sorry lad. And you really don't understand what a tax haven is either.

 

[bugsyblue]

I don't want "power" I want the focus to be on the people living here, to improve their lot in life by spending resources and finances on us, not problems in the world. I've never grown up with "Rule Britannia", i'm not a flag waver, which is why the ever growing "power" of the EU is starting to disgust me. I don't like "superpowers", don't see the purpose of "political" unions as they rarely address issues from either side, or mostly anger one side or the other and generally don't wish to have the UK be seen to contribute towards such an eventuality for Europe and the people of Europe.

We have to give the EU a contribution towards a budget which is spent elsewhere. Nothing else, just it's own vanity project. How much did the new EU Parlaiment building cost? How much do EU MEP's earn? How much does the entire EU Parliamentary setup cost? It's a complete waste of european citizens taxpayers money, all so some old men in suits can act billy big bollocks with ambassadors and representatives from China and the US at swanky dos they've paid for.

I wanted reform of the EU, to focus less on politics and more on it's members citizens. That has not transpired, so when asked would I leave it or stay in it, am I expected to lie and say "remain" or say no, i'm not happy with this "Union"?

I respect a lot of what you just said. I feel different about it myself but I can understand your viewpoint.

But given I now understand why you voted to leave I think you need to prepare yourself for being very disappointed with what’s to come. The focus will not be on the people living here and improving their lives. The nhs is not going to get better. Our quality of life will not improve and I believe we’ll end up being the puppet of bigger players like the US.

The amount of money the UK receives and the benefits of EU projects and schemes is vast. We had the best of both worlds by being a main player in the EU but being the one country to retain its own currency. Now if we crash out with no deal we’re going to be very very weak and much stronger countries, especially the US, will use that to their advantage and I fear we’ll look back on the whole thing in years to come and think, why the fuck did we do that to ourselves.

Hope I’m wrong. I have strong feelings on the subject but I would never want to see my fellow man struggle and sadly it’s always the poorest that suffer. Boris, farage and all their mates are going to benefit from this whatever happens.

 

[Metal Biker]

Do you not see the world heading that way anyway ?

We are becoming more globalised nowadays thanks to freedom of movement, cheap travel and work commitments.

Climate change, health and safety, terrorism all brings intertwining between nations and continents and obviously the economic sector does aswell - you need rules to apply all this together.

Do you really see England in say 50 years time trading by its own rules,abiding by its own laws and closing the walls to the rest of the world when it comes to those issues ?

I wouldn’t want sudden federalistic change but it’s inevitable that will happen in the future - the younger generation will embrace this and that’s all that matters really.

And look what's happening to the world. Temperatures rising, pollution making people sicker and the oceans are full of plastic.

The EU is doing little to address this problem, it's just continuing as it always has done. Ever closer integration, global superpower, citizens are mere workers, not people, cheap labour for all. That is why the Greens did so well in the Euro Parl elections, people all over Europe are saying they've had enough of this waste and excessive behaviour the EU higherups embrace.

I don't know what's going to happen to the nation in 50 years time. 50 years ago we were locked in political tensions with the Soviet Union, England were the reigning world champions and Vietnam War was heating up. It's a ridiculous timeframe to suggest. England could have joined a different union to a European one, maybe NAFTA, no idea. I am concerned about what I see happening right now, and I don't wish to see Europe become a superpower. It reeks of 18th Century European Imperialist mentality, a world where Europe decides important matters. Federalism on that scale is only inevitable if the people allow it, and we're ones who are saying "no", as is our right to.

 

[Metal Biker]

Britain already governs itself. All the EU does is give us all more influence when it comes to trade negotiations. Your Parliament has always been sovereign, they've just used the EU as a scapegoat for their fuck ups, aided and abetted by a Murdoch led isolationist right wing press.

And to who we are allowed to do deals with.

 

[aguero93:20]

The EU is doing little to address this problem, it's just continuing as it always has done. That is why the Greens did so well in the Euro Parl elections, people all over Europe are saying they've had enough of this waste and excessive behaviour the EU higherups embrace.

The EU is the only one doing anything about it, banning single use plastics, huge funding into renewables, forcing the electric car issue etc etc. They're not doing anywhere near enough, but they're doing a lot more than the states, Russia or China. Disingenuous imo.

 

[bugsyblue]

And look what's happening to the world. Temperatures rising, pollution making people sicker and the oceans are full of plastic.

The EU is doing little to address this problem, it's just continuing as it always has done. Ever closer integration, global superpower, citizens are mere workers, not people, cheap labour for all. That is why the Greens did so well in the Euro Parl elections, people all over Europe are saying they've had enough of this waste and excessive behaviour the EU higherups embrace.

I don't know what's going to happen to the nation in 50 years time. 50 years ago we were locked in political tensions with the Soviet Union, England were the reigning world champions and Vietnam War was heating up. It's a ridiculous timeframe to suggest. England could have joined a different union to a European one, maybe NAFTA, no idea. I am concerned about what I see happening right now, and I don't wish to see Europe become a superpower. It reeks of 18th Century European Imperialist mentality, a world where Europe decides important matters. Federalism on that scale is only inevitable if the people allow it, and we're ones who are saying "no", as is our right to.

That’s bollocks mate. The EU is trying to combat global warming more than most!

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/citizens/eu_en

 

[aguero93:20]

And to who we are allowed to do deals with.

You did a few with China while EU members, also a few with the states. Google is your friend. Only a few, but that's because the EU were capable of getting better terms than the UK.

 

[Metal Biker]

I respect a lot of what you just said. I feel different about it myself but I can understand your viewpoint.

But given I now understand why you voted to leave I think you need to prepare yourself for being very disappointed with what’s to come. The focus will not be on the people living here and improving their lives. The nhs is not going to get better. Our quality of life will not improve and I believe we’ll end up being the puppet of bigger players like the US.

The amount of money the UK receives and the benefits of EU projects and schemes is vast. We had the best of both worlds by being a main player in the EU but being the one country to retain its own currency. Now if we crash out with no deal we’re going to be very very weak and much stronger countries, especially the US, will use that to their advantage and I fear we’ll look back on the whole thing in years to come and think, why the fuck did we do that to ourselves.

Hope I’m wrong. I have strong feelings on the subject but I would never want to see my fellow man struggle and sadly it’s always the poorest that suffer. Boris, farage and all their mates are going to benefit from this whatever happens.

That's all this is. A difference of opinion.

Some want federalism, some want a bigger, stronger Europe, fair enough. I don't want a federal Europe, I don't want to see the uber-capitalist EU dominating over it's citizens to the point their voices become nothing more than a tick at a ballot box. I want all European nations to be partners, helping one another, but not combine their politics. The EU wants more and more influence over it's members. Surely you've heard the ramblings of the likes of Verhofstadt demanding more sovereignty is handed over to Brussels? And there are more and more Verhofstadts on the horizon in the future.

I care nothing for Farage, Boris, Banks whoever, I subscribed to the socialist evaluation of the European Union, and when it became clear the EU was not going to listen, I was left with no choice but, no matter how damaging, halt something I am opposed to.

 

[blueinsa]

They won't come to you as you'll be locked out of the biggest single market in the world. Sorry lad. And you really don't understand what a tax haven is either.

They wont come eh? Someone tell the Caribbean combined and Singapore they had better join the EU quick or companies wont come.

I do, zero percent etc etc etc.

You have to admit though for a non tax haven you do seem to do very well ;-)

 

[aguero93:20]

That's all this is. A difference of opinion.

Some want federalism, some want a bigger, stronger Europe, fair enough. I don't want a federal Europe, I don't want to see the uber-capitalist EU dominating over it's citizens to the point their voices become nothing more than a tick at a ballot box. I want all European nations to be partners, helping one another, but not combine their politics. The EU wants more and more influence over it's members. Surely you've heard the ramblings of the likes of Verhofstadt demanding more sovereignty is handed over to Brussels? And there are more and more Verhofstadts on the horizon in the future.

I care nothing for Farage, Boris, Banks whoever, I subscribed to the socialist evaluation of the European Union, and when it became clear the EU was not going to listen, I was left with no choice but, no matter how damaging, halt something I am opposed to.

There's more Verhofstadts and there's more Mairead McGuinnesses, any further move towards federalism has to be approved by every member state, so will only happen with the consent of every member state. I know our right to referenda makes us feel more secure on this than you lot, but the same Parliament you want to give back control to would decide your future relationship with the EU. If you trust them, then trust them.

 

[Metal Biker]

That’s bollocks mate. The EU is trying to combat global warming more than most!

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/citizens/eu_en

From their own website.

You'll believe anything they say. They had no intention to do so, until people starting putting pressure on them. They are tackling it now, they weren't that interested before, is what i'm saying.

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/05/08/germany-italy-poland-snub-call-net-zero-carbon-eu-2050/

 

[bugsyblue]

That's all this is. A difference of opinion.

Some want federalism, some want a bigger, stronger Europe, fair enough. I don't want a federal Europe, I don't want to see the uber-capitalist EU dominating over it's citizens to the point their voices become nothing more than a tick at a ballot box. I want all European nations to be partners, helping one another, but not combine their politics. The EU wants more and more influence over it's members. Surely you've heard the ramblings of the likes of Verhofstadt demanding more sovereignty is handed over to Brussels? And there are more and more Verhofstadts on the horizon in the future.

I care nothing for Farage, Boris, Banks whoever, I subscribed to the socialist evaluation of the European Union, and when it became clear the EU was not going to listen, I was left with no choice but, no matter how damaging, halt something I am opposed to.

Which I understand. But surely when you did that you weighed up what the alternative was? And presumably you assume the reality, not the promise, will make us better off (be it politically or financially)? Otherwise aren’t you just being idealistically naive (with respect)?

 

[aguero93:20]

They wont come eh? Someone tell the Caribbean combined and Singapore they had better join the EU quick or companies wont come.

I do, zero percent etc etc etc.

You have to admit though for a non tax haven you do seem to do very well ;-)

Funny that, didn't Singapore and Japan just do a very favourable trade deal with the EU? You'd think they would have gone it alone, as that's obviously better.

 

[Metal Biker]

There's more Verhofstadts and there's more Mairead McGuinnesses, any further move towards federalism has to be approved by every member state, so will only happen with the consent of every member state. I know our right to referenda makes us feel more secure on this than you lot, but the same Parliament you want to give back control to would decide your future relationship with the EU. If you trust them, then trust them.

Which is again the point you're not understanding.

Yes, all members must approve of it, but it should never be a position any member is meant to deliberate on IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And every time we refuse, opt out, but the EU goes along with it, the further away from the "EU" we become. So it's a case of conform, or be left behind. What a glorious choice.

 

[bugsyblue]

From their own website.

You'll believe anything they say. They had no intention to do so, until people starting putting pressure on them. They are tackling it now, they weren't that interested before, is what i'm saying.

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/05/08/germany-italy-poland-snub-call-net-zero-carbon-eu-2050/

I disagree but okay. So which countries WERE fighting the good fight then?

You seem to compare the EU against your ideals and not against the actual real world.

 

[Metal Biker]

Which I understand. But surely when you did that you weighed up what the alternative was? And presumably you assume the reality, not the promise, will make us better off (be it politically or financially)? Otherwise aren’t you just being idealistically naive (with respect)?

Of course I did.

But I advocated joining the EFTA, not this no deal mess.

 

[aguero93:20]

Which is again the point you're not understanding.

Yes, all members must approve of it, but it should never be a position any member is meant to deliberate on IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And every time we refuse, opt out, but the EU goes along with it, the further away from the "EU" we become. So it's a case of conform, or be left behind. What a glorious choice.

You're confusing the EU and eurozone again. Try thinking of them like the EFTA and EU.

 

[blueinsa]

Funny that, didn't Singapore and Japan just do a very favourable trade deal with the EU? You'd think they would have gone it alone, as that's obviously better.

You switching it to trade deals now and away from tax and the way Ireland has become the biggest destination for company profits because it is effectively a tax haven?

Probably for the best but remember its only because you though you was being clever with your Singapore on Thames quip.