Another new Brexit thread

[kevin horlocks wand]

Who do you not think are loony parties, out of interest?

The monster raving looney party must be at least in with a shout

 

[Saddleworth2]

I’m in Ireland just now. What a lovely country with fantastic friendly people. Wish I could stay. When Brexit is mentioned they look at you with a mixture of sympathy and compassion and wish us best of luck. The feeling I get from those that I have spoken to are that they are taking the right stance re the backstop and the EU will continue to support them.
Oh, the Guinness is almost as good as the the seafood.

 

[xgorton]

Who do you not think are loony parties, out of interest?

LIKUD

 

[bugsyblue]

That is a different point to the language the MPs have clearly been instructed to use. It’s like when they all started to use the phrase ‘EU intransigence’ and ‘we get to control our money, laws and borders’ - they are phrased they throw out which rarely get challenged

What money? 1% of national expenditure
What borders? The ones we already have full control over just choose not to...
What laws?

The whole process would have been a lot better if these people were asked, what *exactly* do you mean by that

Sadly that’s because most of our media is a joke. Yes there’s some good journalists and a few news reporters but the majority is populist propaganda to sell papers or tv slots. There’s very little journalistic integrity today and too many papers are controlled by rich and powerful individuals with vested personal interest in British politics.

We’re fed a load of lies and shit, particularly with Brexit and the anti-EU and, on broader point, anti-immigration nonsense, by the likes of the sun and daily mail. And sadly, a lot of people lap it up.

 

[Vic]

The monster raving looney party must be at least in with a shout

Never did me any harm unlike the Tories.

 

[Vic]

I’m in Ireland just now. What a lovely country with fantastic friendly people. Wish I could stay. When Brexit is mentioned they look at you with a mixture of sympathy and compassion and wish us best of luck. The feeling I get from those that I have spoken to are that they are taking the right stance re the backstop and the EU will continue to support them.
Oh, the Guinness is almost as good as the the seafood.

It's true of most places in Europe, which is why people who never went abroad were more likely to vote Leave (though I guess that's a bit chicken and egg).

Now wait for the posts saying "You're saying no Leave voters ever go abroad".

 

[George Hannah]

I’m in Ireland just now. What a lovely country with fantastic friendly people. Wish I could stay. When Brexit is mentioned they look at you with a mixture of sympathy and compassion and wish us best of luck. The feeling I get from those that I have spoken to are that they are taking the right stance re the backstop and the EU will continue to support them.
Oh, the Guinness is almost as good as the the seafood.

stay away from the lewnatik soup

 

[Blue Hefner]

Sadly that’s because most of our media is a joke. Yes there’s some good journalists and a few news reporters but the majority is populist propaganda to sell papers or tv slots. There’s very little journalistic integrity today and too many papers are controlled by rich and powerful individuals with vested personal interest in British politics.

We’re fed a load of lies and shit, particularly with Brexit and the anti-EU and, on broader point, anti-immigration nonsense, by the likes of the sun and daily mail. And sadly, a lot of people lap it up.

Whilst I agree in the main the MPs also know that a TV/radio interview is time limited. As a result 1) the interviewer will probably get a bollocking for asking the same question and getting the same non-answer and 2) listeners and viewers would call the interviewer bias and/or childish for not getting the answer they want

Interviews are generally about getting content, any content, not necessarily answers

Also, see Question Time. It’s just a platform for (unchallenged) sound bites

 

[west didsblue]

Good to see the Brexit Party down to just 10% of the vote in Brecon.
Also Labour need to take note that they are not a credible opposition if they can only get 5% of the vote in any by-election. They were never going to win it but their catastrophic showing in this by-election is for one reason only - Corbyn needs to go, and soon.

 

[Rascal]

Leave (not join) was very much the position of the left then. Some old debates from the early 70's on youtube show Michael Foot laying out a proper case for not being part of the EU (common market). A class above the rw populist arguments now.

Absolutely, Foot and Peter Shore were superb and made a great case for leave and yes a street ahead of the likes of Farage et al.

 

[Rascal]

Good to see the Brexit Party down to just 10% of the vote in Brecon.
Also Labour need to take note that they are not a credible opposition if they can only get 5% of the vote in any by-election. They were never going to win it but their catastrophic showing in this by-election is for one reason only - Corbyn needs to go, and soon.

Labour were never going to win the seat and I would hope many Labour voters voted tactically to keep the Tories out. I would vote for Lou Macari if it meant beating a Tory and I hate the rag ****

 

[Blue Hefner]

Good to see the Brexit Party down to just 10% of the vote in Brecon.
Also Labour need to take note that they are not a credible opposition if they can only get 5% of the vote in any by-election. They were never going to win it but their catastrophic showing in this by-election is for one reason only - Corbyn needs to go, and soon.

It’s for the Labour thread but how many more elections does Labour have to lose before they look at Corbyn?

Corbyn wants a committee to run the country but it doesn’t work like that. People want a leader, people want to be told X, Y and Z. Make a proper decision, stick to it, sell it and live or die by it but don’t fudge

It’s better to die like a man than live like a coward. Particularly when we are watching a very slow and painful death

 

[west didsblue]

Labour were never going to win the seat and I would hope many Labour voters voted tactically to keep the Tories out. I would vote for Lou Macari if it meant beating a Tory and I hate the rag ****

I reckon as many of Labour's lost support went to the BP as the Lib Dems. But you're right about the fact that tactical voting helped the Lib Dems win.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Good to see the Brexit Party down to just 10% of the vote in Brecon.
Also Labour need to take note that they are not a credible opposition if they can only get 5% of the vote in any by-election. They were never going to win it but their catastrophic showing in this by-election is for one reason only - Corbyn needs to go, and soon.

My understanding is that it was a tactical decision ....we fielded a candidate but did next to no campaigning

 

[FlemishDuck]

Corbyn wants a committee to run the country but it doesn’t work like that. People want a leader, people want to be told X, Y and Z. Make a proper decision, stick to it, sell it and live or die by it but don’t fudge

From what do you derive this notion that the majority of people would want a "strong leader"? I observe that Brexit flowed from a referendum and that some sort of a 2nd referendum was also in demand by a large section of the electorate.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Labour were never going to win the seat and I would hope many Labour voters voted tactically to keep the Tories out. I would vote for Lou Macari if it meant beating a Tory and I hate the rag ****

i like you

 

[mcfc1632]

I'm not sure which "other nations" consider federalism a future goal. The Eurobarometer says most EU citizens think the EU is going in the wrong direction (but then most think their own country is going in the wrong direction). But most still think being in the EU has been good for their country (going up since our referendum).

So....?

There is plenty of evidence that what mere citizens think is of only minor interest to the idealogues and has no meaningful impact on the progress to implement the project

 

[Blue Hefner]

From what do you derive this notion that the majority of people would want a "strong leader"? I observe that Brexit flowed from a referendum and that some sort of a 2nd referendum was also in demand by a large section of the electorate.

I didn’t say ‘strong’ leader. That implies something a lot different

People want someone to stand up, sell them a vision and tell them what’s what. Say what you like about Thatcher and Blair but they had a position and people either liked it or didn’t like it - Corbyn changes his mind depending on the last person he spoke to

 

[west didsblue]

I didn’t say ‘strong’ leader. That implies something a lot different

People want someone to stand up, sell them a vision and tell them what’s what. Say what you like about Thatcher and Blair but they had a position and people either liked it or didn’t like it - Corbyn changes his mind depending on the last person he spoke to

Just like his counterpart across the commons.

What a fucked up country we are with Johnson and Corbyn as the leading political figures.

 

[mcfc1632]

Unfortunately, yeah. I heard there was a study which found there are lots like me, supported the idea of the EU but wavered during the run up, during and post referendum. Now you can argue that’s the idea of a campaign but I’m not really bothered. From an ideology point of view I have/had no real thoughts on it but what I do know is that my life(to a greater or lesser extent) will be negatively effected by this and some a lot more. So I ask, why are we *actually* doing it?

I find it absurd that the nation are tied to a 50/50 decision which I made over 3 years ago which has no obvious upside - there are no other circumstances where I would make a decision, then realise it’s a total cock up and be stuck with it:

Buy a house - sell it
Get married - divorce is an option
Even if you have kids you can do a runner but with this we are stuck with it

A misguided vote of a left wing exit from the EU results in a hard right take over

There was a guy on the radio saying people legitimately voted for the Nazi Party for a variety of reasons and they took that vote and did what they did - now I’m obviously not saying it’s the same but the ‘well you voted for it’ is already coming out whether that be job losses, businesses leaving etc.

It is fucking madness.

You can campaign to rejoin