Another new Brexit thread

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I distinctly remember when Findus crispy pancakes came out, as my dad used to sell them in his shop in Miles Platting in the late 70's and I recall gazing longingly at these exotic foodstuffs as they sat in the freezer, in the knowledge that the chances of my mum cooking such a dish were pretty slim. Such a social climber.

Pretty sure the curry flavour ones were available in the late 70's.

 

[Vic]

Oh - such a devastating insult...

In reality you are only telling me that you are right and I must accept that and that you have no tolerance for me holding my view - there is an appropriate noun for people that act in that manner

Which you won't use because you're never to blame for the abuse?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Ah, like brexit, the age gap is telling.
My sojourn into the wonderfull world of Findus occured in the 70's and to the best of my knowledge curry wasn't even invented then.
Fast forward to the 90's and yes, they did indeed do a curry one. I was getting this mixed up with the goddam awful abomination that was Ham and Cheese.
And in a pleasingly symmetrical chat, I was in France living off croque monsieurs in the 90's.

Its sad that in 40 years the EU has not managed to enforce croque monsieurs standards upon British cheese on toast. Just spent two weeks in France and their Boeuf Hache are miles ahead of what passes for a burger in our supermarkets also. If the EU could sort this out as well as reinstating the full range of Findus crispy pancakes I'd vote Remain in a second referendum. I'd even dithering the pound and adopt the Euro if it made the crispy pancakes cheaper.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I distinctly remember when Findus crispy pancakes came out, as my dad used to sell them in his shop in Miles Platting in the late 70's and I recall gazing longingly at these exotic foodstuffs as they sat in the freezer, in the knowledge that the chances of my mum cooking such a dish were pretty slim. Such a social climber.

Pretty sure the curry flavour ones were available in the late 70's.

You were obviously rather aspirational middle class types to be able to gaze upon such exotic produce in the 70's - I bet you had blue nun and bulls blood in the drinks cabinet and a fondue set as well.

 

[Rascal]

My reasons for voting remain were entirely negative. Firstly, I couldn’t bring myself to be on the same side of the argument as Farage & co. Secondly, I had absolutely no faith in our politicians making a success of extricating the UK from the EU.

I would have liked to have been more positive about remaining in the EU but I’m just not a huge fan. But does it really matter if I voted for negative reasons? I do lots of things simply to avoid negative consequences. I support vaccination. Is it really more valid to have a positive reason for doing something rather than wanting to avoid a negative outcome? It would have helped the Remain campaign if they had been able to promote positive reasons for Remaining, but I suspect that if they had they would still have been perceived by many as insignificant compared to the bright new world post Brexit

I think they are valid points. Leave appealed to me in the LEXIT sense, but there was absolutely no way I could vote leave because of Farage. Remain offered the status quo which is why their is an issue in the first place, so I was left with no option but to abstain. I hate that too as I really do believe in democracy.

 

[BlueHammer85]

There will be.

Now we've been told that the leave arguments are not based on facts and that they're based on emotion, there will be a wide range of emotive nonsense provided to dispute the cold hard facts.

bulldog spirit

 

[Saddleworth2]

It is rational, but whoever thought an electorate was rational. It is not, it votes according to perception and what resonates personally to their individual circumstances. Leave won hearts by appealing to an inate sense of Britishness that I don't believe actually exists anymore but it does in peoples minds. Trump did the same in America with his MAGA stuff, it appealed to hearts not minds.

Englishness. Not Britishness if the research is to be believed.

 

[west didsblue]

I think they are valid points. Leave appealed to me in the LEXIT sense, but there was absolutely no way I could vote leave because of Farage. Remain offered the status quo which is why their is an issue in the first place, so I was left with no option but to abstain. I hate that too as I really do believe in democracy.

Hate to say this, but abstaining was a bit of a cop out. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and vote for something you don't necessarily agree with to try and make sure the even worse alternative doesn't happen. Whilst a Lexit might have seemed attractive to those on the left, there was never any realistic chance that it could happen while Farage was setting the agenda.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You were obviously rather aspirational middle class types to be able to gaze upon such exotic produce in the 70's - I bet you had blue nun and bulls blood in the drinks cabinet and a fondue set as well.

You might have been able to describe my dad in the 70's as aspirational - but middle class? not so much.

None of the forgegoing bourgeois paraphernalia chez-nous, either.

 

[Rascal]

What's LEXIT rascal? If it means we leave and get two (fit & bi-curious) lesbians each I'm in.

That would be nice :))

LEXIT, is the left wing approach to leaving the EU as championed once upon a time by the likes of Tony Benn. It basically sees the EU as a capitalist club formed to help spread neo=liberalism and its protectionist outlook denies the right of the UK to enact Socialist policies such as nationalism and state aid for industry. Benn thought the EU did not match his five measures of what constitutes a Democracy which are

1/ What power have you got
2/ Where did you get it from
3/ In whose interests do you exercise it
4/ To whom are you accountable
5/ How can we get rid of you

In my opinion they are pretty powerful questions that always need to be answered in a democracy.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

That would be nice :))

LEXIT, is the left wing approach to leaving the EU as championed once upon a time by the likes of Tony Benn. It basically sees the EU as a capitalist club formed to help spread neo=liberalism and its protectionist outlook denies the right of the UK to enact Socialist policies such as nationalism and state aid for industry. Benn thought the EU did not match his five measures of what constitutes a Democracy which are

1/ What power have you got
2/ Where did you get it from
3/ In whose interests do you exercise it
4/ To whom are you accountable
5/ How can we get rid of you

In my opinion they are pretty powerful questions that always need to be answered in a democracy.

Pretty much sums up why I'm a Leaver.

 

[Rascal]

Hate to say this, but abstaining was a bit of a cop out. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and vote for something you don't necessarily agree with to try and make sure the even worse alternative doesn't happen. Whilst a Lexit might have seemed attractive to those on the left, there was never any realistic chance that it could happen while Farage was setting the agenda.

I agree, it was a cop out. My preference was never on the ballot paper. I want a fully federal EU with an elected President, EU armed forces, pan-European political parties and a system of regional parliaments based on local requirements, a proper EU central bank, harmonised tax rates and a proper written constitution. Remain never offered that, leave is regressive and I would have voted for leave if it wasn't for Farage. I really do believe that if Farage wasn't involved leave would have won comfortably.

 

[Metal Biker]

That would be nice :))

LEXIT, is the left wing approach to leaving the EU as championed once upon a time by the likes of Tony Benn. It basically sees the EU as a capitalist club formed to help spread neo=liberalism and its protectionist outlook denies the right of the UK to enact Socialist policies such as nationalism and state aid for industry. Benn thought the EU did not match his five measures of what constitutes a Democracy which are

1/ What power have you got
2/ Where did you get it from
3/ In whose interests do you exercise it
4/ To whom are you accountable
5/ How can we get rid of you

In my opinion they are pretty powerful questions that always need to be answered in a democracy.

Not a popular figure around here is ol' Benny, mate.

Not sure why, but whenever he's mentioned it gets certain people's backs up.

 

[lust overlord]

Not a popular figure around here is ol' Benny, mate.

Not sure why, but whenever he's mentioned it gets certain people's backs up.

Not a huge fan of Benn myself.
A politician of priciples and worthy of respect.

Unlike the vast majority of them nowadays

 

[Rascal]

Not a popular figure around here is ol' Benny, mate.

Not sure why, but whenever he's mentioned it gets certain people's backs up.

A shame as well as him and Michael Foot were my first political hero's

 

[George Hannah]

You might have been able to describe my dad in the 70's as aspirational - but middle class? not so much.

None of the forgegoing bourgeois paraphernalia chez-nous, either.

Just Irn Bru & Drambuie eh?

 

[BlueHammer85]

I agree, it was a cop out. My preference was never on the ballot paper. I want a fully federal EU with an elected President, EU armed forces, pan-European political parties and a system of regional parliaments based on local requirements, a proper EU central bank, harmonised tax rates and a proper written constitution. Remain never offered that, leave is regressive and I would have voted for leave if it wasn't for Farage. I really do believe that if Farage wasn't involved leave would have won comfortably.

that's a joke right ?

remain would have won comfortably.

and if it wasn't for Farage the vote would never have even happened.

 

[Metal Biker]

that's a joke right ?

remain would have won comfortably.

and if it wasn't for Farage the vote would never have even happened.

Yes it would. The longer our Parliamentarians ignored the issue, the stronger it was going to get.

It was only a matter of time before someone like Farage capitalised on the issue; it had been growing since the late 80's.

 

[lust overlord]

Yes it would. The longer our Parliamentarians ignored the issue, the stronger it was going to get.

It was only a matter of time before someone like Farage capitalised on the issue; it had been growing since the late 80's.

Very possibly,still a right wing capitalisation of the issue though.
Therefore a right wing leave.

It's a trade off ,a lot of stuff that comes from it you may not like for the odd thing that you do.

 

[Metal Biker]

Very possibly,still a right wing capitalisation of the issue though.
Therefore a right wing leave.

It's a trade off ,a lot of stuff that comes from it you may not like for the odd thing that you do.

The discussion about it should have been taken seriously, not dismissed as being "fruitcakes and loonies".

What I will agree is that the referendum was held at least 4 years too soon, but it was election year wasn't it; Cameron had to promise his dissenters something.