Another new Brexit thread

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Or maybe they’re not stupid and realise that No Deal would not only be a disaster for the country it would fuck up their re-election chances.

This may well be the case, but it seems more than coincidental that the MP's that want a 'peoples vote' are the same ones that just didn't like the referendum result. And the ones calling for a 'government of national unity' seem to want to staff such an interim govt with those that wish to remain in the EU. At least twats like Boris, JRM, are honest about their intentions, even if their motivation is rather more murky.

 

[west didsblue]

That would suggest that the electorate that is now overwhelmingly remain isn't.

I'd agree with that suggestion.

Not really. If No Deal lives up to expectations then the electorate will blame those MPs that let it happen.

 

[west didsblue]

This may well be the case, but it seems more than coincidental that the MP's that want a 'peoples vote' are the same ones that just didn't like the referendum result. And the ones calling for a 'government of national unity' seem to want to staff such an interim govt with those that wish to remain in the EU. At least twats like Boris, JRM, are honest about their intentions, even if their motivation is rather more murky.

If there was a viable Brexit WA that didn’t fuck up the economy, then I expect Remain MPs would reluctantly accept it. Remember it was the hard Brexiters that scuppered the only WA on offer.

 

[BobKowalski]

And the negotiations begin...best bits are at the end with a hint of a softening of our position.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

If there was a viable Brexit WA that didn’t fuck up the economy, then I expect Remain MPs would reluctantly accept it. Remember it was the hard Brexiters that scuppered the only WA on offer.

I honestly thought the votes against the WA were pretty spread across remain and leave MP's alike? Basically Mays attempt to keep everyone happy pleased no one - to Brexity for some, not Brexity enough for others. I didn't like the deal personaly as I think it managed to combine the worst aspects of both leave and remain rather than the best.

 

[west didsblue]

I honestly thought the votes against the WA were pretty spread across remain and leave MP's alike? Basically Mays attempt to keep everyone happy pleased no one - to Brexity for some, not Brexity enough for others. I didn't like the deal personaly as I think it managed to combine the worst aspects of both leave and remain rather than the best.

Yes they were, however had all the Tory Leave MPs voted for it, it would have gone through. You can’t blame Remain MPs representing Remain constituencies for not voting for it. If the opposition was involved in setting the framework for the negotiations then you could maybe blame those MPs for not voting for it, however the opposition weren’t asked until it all went pear shaped. The blame falls squarely with the ERG who insisted on May’s red lines without consensus leaving opponents to those red lines nowhere to go except to vote against.

 

[mcfc1632]

And the negotiations begin...best bits are at the end with a hint of a softening of our position.

Clever note that - not my cup of tea as a person - but a lot more nous than May

 

[Ban-jani]

That you place them as your peers speaks volumes of how humble you can be;-)

I really don’t I just listen to them unlike you lot who think you know better.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Clever note that - not my cup of tea as a person - but a lot more nous than May

Does seem a genuine attempt to start a dialogue rather than just chest beating and antagonism which is better than I expected from Bj tbh.

 

[Ban-jani]

That is some twisted way of saying things - would it not have been easier to simply say -.... Yeah you're right

Is this you admitting that the public wouldn’t vote for Brexit again?

 

[joe123]

And the negotiations begin...best bits are at the end with a hint of a softening of our position.

Can anyone explain the commitment to using the word anti-democratic every time they describe backstop?

 

[hilts]

I did say possible but unlikely ;-)

Sorry mate no medicine after brexit so it would be a hacksaw and superglue job which is probably quite painful. Shame really as the last 3 years have proved there is a plentiful supply of fannies in this country.

A fair few cocks as well come to think of it.

 

[BobKowalski]

Clever note that - not my cup of tea as a person - but a lot more nous than May

Don’t really see much difference. May started full of firm intent and then spend months backtracking. Johnson is exactly the same. Won’t meet EU leaders until our demand re the backstop is met nor will he be seen shuttling off to EU capitals. Three weeks later he is meeting them on their turf. This letter is the same. It’s a firm no to the backstop and buried at the end a pledge of unspecified new "commitments" to reassure EU on Irish border should "alternative arrangements" not be in place by end of post-Brexit transition period. Welcome to the new backstop, just don’t call it a backstop.

 

[BobKowalski]

Brexit Party branding Johnson’s letter a sell out and you can’t trust the Tories to deliver Brexit yada, yada. Usual bollocks.

 

[BobKowalski]

Johnson’s letter getting a severe kicking from some quarters. A ‘sham negotiation’ and unserious with it’s offer of ‘unspecified commitments’. Dublin and Brussels to react coldly etc.

They are correct on the unspecified commitments as no country would sign an agreement with anything that vague in it but the other reading is that Johnson can’t be that specific at this stage as his Govt, such as it is, would collapse.

ERG Tories and BP want the WA junked not fixes to it and are making this very clear. This lets the EU off the hook as why offer any compromise when the Govt can’t promise it will pass? Also if a GE happens and we have a different Govt with a different mandate what is the point of even sitting down with Johnson? Just hand him a six month extension and politely ask the U.K. to come back when it’s in a position to agree something that inhabits the real world.

 

[BobKowalski]

Dublin rejects Boris Johnson’s letter

"Unfortunately this letter does not set out what the so called 'alternative arrangements' could or would be. Unless and until there are viable alternatives the need for the backstop insurance policy is clear,” said a senior govt figure

 

[mcfc1632]

Is this you admitting that the public wouldn’t vote for Brexit again?

Well I will give you a direct answer - why not give it a try yourself

NO!

Reread what I said and it will be clear

But I do indeed think that you were admitting that I was right - without being able to bring yourself to say it

 

[Ban-jani]

Well I will give you a direct answer - why not give it a try yourself

NO!

Reread what I said and it will be clear

But I do indeed think that you were admitting that I was right - without being able to bring yourself to say it

I agreed with you but not for the same reasons.

You don’t think we’ll leave generally speaking, if it doesn’t happen this time, I think we won’t either but specifically because the public will now vote against it at every opportunity.

So yes you’ve reached the right conclusion but I’m unsure if you took the right journey to get there.

 

[mcfc1632]

Can anyone explain the commitment to using the word anti-democratic every time they describe backstop?

The need to establish in everybody's mind that the backstop is an utter red-line issue of such importance that it alone would justify no-deal.

The PM will seek to establish a narrative that sets out

a) The backstop will fundamentally undermine the sovereignty of the UK and leave us in the position of vassal state

b) Therefore the EU must remove it

v) if not and we fall to no-deal then any resulting hardships are the fault of the EU - leading to a shoring up of support as people find an outlet for their anger.

Now the populace will fall into 3 groups

1. Like me - people that firmly believe that to be true anyway

2. Many Remainers who think that is pure hogwash and

3. Millions of others that are not in either of those camps and are susceptible to be swayed to support 'fortress Britain'.

The first 2 groups will be of limited interest to the PM - they cannot be swayed - it is all aimed at the 3rd group who are sufficient in number as to be able to swing many a marginal seat in a future election

 

[blueinsa]

Brexit Party branding Johnson’s letter a sell out and you can’t trust the Tories to deliver Brexit yada, yada. Usual bollocks.

Trust them far more as a leave voter than anyone else in parliament lol