Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

Did they really vote for that?

To ensure that the prosperity of our nation was tied in with other nations outside the EU, should the EU turn in a direction we did not want, making us less reliant on just Europe and more open to a wider world that can also provide for us and us for them? Yes.

I supported being in the EU when it was about open trade and goods, have no issues with migration as I feel nobody should be prevented from living and/or working where they wish if they comply with laws, but not when it had a desire to be seen as a world superpower with "influence" in the political theatre. It started to reek of European Imperialistic notions, that the world should become more "european". That's not the Europe I want to see or be part of. But since we're heavily tied in to europe, it made sense to me to create other links outside of Europe, to create similar and equal partnerships with other nations and groups, not focusing on building "Europe".

The world is going to become globally connected, why should the emphasis be "European"?

 

[Metal Biker]

Did they bollocks. Most people couldn’t tell you what a Customs Union is. Most MPs didn’t even fucking know. Trade guys were holding quick seminars for them on ‘What is a Customs Union’.

I'm meant to take the ramblings of someone who voted against leaving the EU on what people who voted in favour of doing so, wanted?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

In all serious we are a few weeks away from Halloween and all sides say they want to leave with a deal.

If this was a huge piece of litigation the parties would be seeking to try and resolve differences by way of arbitration.

The eu negotiAtion team should be locked in a hotel room with the uk negotiating team and aided by a skilled arbitrator who is-experienced in dealing with international disputes. The fuckers should not be allowed out of the hotel until a deal has been reached.

I recall the last days of the GFA required a similar push and a sleepless night, as did the bail out deals of the banks.

We need to stop fucking about get in a room and get this thing resolved. Apparently that’s what the parties publicly state they want but this posturing is getting pathetic and boring.

 

[Vic]

Except Jo Cox was murdered before the vote took place.

So that's alright then?

 

[Metal Biker]

Mate we can’t do any deal with the EU , those are the rules made up by the EU

It’s all pie in the sky until the withdrawal agreement is signed .

I don’t understand remainers refusal to see how this isn’t cake and eat it by the eu . All of this should have been wrapped up in one agreement dealing with exit and future trade .

Agreed. Japan's trade deal took less than 4 years and there's nothing in it that I also wouldn't want to see us have with the EU.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I would call someone like you stupid for not being able to see the comparisons but I won't but you can draw your own conclusions which you obviously already have.

This is the problem isn't it. We have too many people that start a conversation / debate by deriding the others view or calling them / implying they are stupid. After doing this, these same people then have difficulty understanding why they are not listened to, not heard, or end up in a self confirming echo chamber surrounded by only those with the same views. This means we tend to become more polarised and isolated in our views. At its best this results in what we see on this thread with us all generally going round in circles and trading insults, at worst lone nutters murder MP's or blow themselves up. Not a pop on anyone on here btw, just a comment on the times we live in.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Verminous eh?

I remember the Jews being described as vermin once.....

Verminous?
It's just Spanish for let's go, isn't it?

 

[west didsblue]

In all serious we are a few weeks away from Halloween and all sides say they want to leave with a deal.

If this was a huge piece of litigation the parties would be seeking to try and resolve differences by way of arbitration.

The eu negotiAtion team should be locked in a hotel room with the uk negotiating team and aided by a skilled arbitrator who is-experienced in dealing with international disputes. The fuckers should not be allowed out of the hotel until a deal has been reached.

I recall the last days of the GFA required a similar push and a sleepless night, as did the bail out deals of the banks.

We need to stop fucking about get in a room and get this thing resolved. Apparently that’s what the parties publicly state they want but this posturing is getting pathetic and boring.

The UK negotiating team have refused to go in the room without a pre-condition being met.
Perhaps that pre-condition should be the first topic on the agenda instead.
But we won't talk to them.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

To ensure that the prosperity of our nation was tied in with other nations outside the EU, should the EU turn in a direction we did not want, making us less reliant on just Europe and more open to a wider world that can also provide for us and us for them? Yes.

I supported being in the EU when it was about open trade and goods, have no issues with migration as I feel nobody should be prevented from living and/or working where they wish if they comply with laws, but not when it had a desire to be seen as a world superpower with "influence" in the political theatre. It started to reek of European Imperialistic notions, that the world should become more "european". That's not the Europe I want to see or be part of. But since we're heavily tied in to europe, it made sense to me to create other links outside of Europe, to create similar and equal partnerships with other nations and groups, not focusing on building "Europe".

The world is going to become globally connected, why should the emphasis be "European"?

It’s just that I’m a reasonably clever bloke and trade deals or the customs union didn’t enter my train of thought when I voted. I just felt that staying in was probably the best option. Fair play to you if you did all that research and, after weighing everything up, concluded being out was going to be your preference.

 

[Metal Biker]

Because the backstop is the only guarantee to uphold the GFA indefinitely and the EU see it, as May did, as fundamental to the peace process.

It’s not stubborn pride, they’ve given us 2 years to negotiate this and have said as soon as there’s an alternative the backstop goes, Johnson hasn’t provided one.

That's because the EU don't want to lose the UK. The EU absolutely would uphold the backstop indefinitely and tie the UK into the EU.

The backstop only exists because May wanted an end to FoM and this was her idea to get around it.

 

[hilts]

Mate, the no deal is better than a bad deal line was only ever true for the EU.

We have no idea how things would have panned out if they were done differently. Anyone who says otherwise is basically a remainer on a continued propaganda exercise for no reason whatsoever.

We may well be in the exact same position except some leavers including myself would have a bit more respect for those wishing to stay.

If remainers continue to put white hats on all that is EU fine.

You don't have a vote then when the result doesn't go the right way purposely nobble it and then come back and say hey this is a shit show just do what we want.

It ain't working.

 

[Ban-jani]

In all serious we are a few weeks away from Halloween and all sides say they want to leave with a deal.

If this was a huge piece of litigation the parties would be seeking to try and resolve differences by way of arbitration.

The eu negotiAtion team should be locked in a hotel room with the uk negotiating team and aided by a skilled arbitrator who is-experienced in dealing with international disputes. The fuckers should not be allowed out of the hotel until a deal has been reached.

I recall the last days of the GFA required a similar push and a sleepless night, as did the bail out deals of the banks.

We need to stop fucking about get in a room and get this thing resolved. Apparently that’s what the parties publicly state they want but this posturing is getting pathetic and boring.

Hang on, I thought no deal was needed to be kept on the table to show them we mean business?

I thought it was there so we got a deal?

No, the EU have called our pathetic bluff and no deal is going to hurt us far more than them. There’s no need for them to come begging to us, we’ve fucked it.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

This is the problem isn't it. We have too many people that start a conversation / debate by deriding the others view or calling them / implying they are stupid. After doing this, these same people then have difficulty understanding why they are not listened to, not heard, or end up in a self confirming echo chamber surrounded by only those with the same views. This means we tend to become more polarised and isolated in our views. At its best this results in what we see on this thread with us all generally going round in circles and trading insults, at worst lone nutters murder MP's or blow themselves up. Not a pop on anyone on here btw, just a comment on the times we live in.

You forgot the, "he started it, no I didn't he did" bit.

 

[west didsblue]

We have no idea how things would have panned out if they were done differently.

And the award for stating the bleeding obvious goes to....

 

[Vic]

Yeah. A no deal exit from the EU.

This stubborn pride from both sides is becoming embarrassing. Do the EU want a trade deal or not? If we're saying "the recently deposed May and her WA deal is not accepted by Parliament or the new British Government leader" why are there not new discussions?

About what? Non existent alternative arrangements?

 

[Metal Biker]

It’s just that I’m a reasonably clever bloke and trade deals or the customs union didn’t enter my train of thought when I voted. I just felt that staying in was probably the best option. Fair play to you if you did all that research and, after weighing everything up, concluded being out was going to be your preference.

The language of the EU commissioners, the president Barroso, talk of wanting more sovereignty, the lack of a vote on the UK signing the Lisbon Treaty without public approval, this wasn't the Europe I was brought up to support.

I know there are many remainers who felt the same way but, like you, decided that staying in was better for the economy, and hoped for reforms. I couldn't see the powers that run the EU giving in to these demands across the continent for reforms and that if we didn't get out now whilst it was still possible, we'd never get out down the line if things became really toxic.

The EU wants power, I want trade. The EU wants influence, I want liberties to be respected. The EU regards us all as "Europeans", many of us do not accept or identify with that term.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Hang on, I thought no deal was needed to be kept on the table to show them we mean business?

I thought it was there so we got a deal?

No, the EU have called our pathetic bluff and no deal is going to hurt us far more than them. There’s no need for them to come begging to us, we’ve fucked it.

Ok no deal it is then.

 

[Metal Biker]

This is the problem isn't it. We have too many people that start a conversation / debate by deriding the others view or calling them / implying they are stupid. After doing this, these same people then have difficulty understanding why they are not listened to, not heard, or end up in a self confirming echo chamber surrounded by only those with the same views. This means we tend to become more polarised and isolated in our views. At its best this results in what we see on this thread with us all generally going round in circles and trading insults, at worst lone nutters murder MP's or blow themselves up. Not a pop on anyone on here btw, just a comment on the times we live in.

Exactly. Why would anyone waste time presenting your opinions to someone who starts off the conversation with "you're stupid".

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

To ensure that the prosperity of our nation was tied in with other nations outside the EU, should the EU turn in a direction we did not want, making us less reliant on just Europe and more open to a wider world that can also provide for us and us for them? Yes.

I supported being in the EU when it was about open trade and goods, have no issues with migration as I feel nobody should be prevented from living and/or working where they wish if they comply with laws, but not when it had a desire to be seen as a world superpower with "influence" in the political theatre. It started to reek of European Imperialistic notions, that the world should become more "european". That's not the Europe I want to see or be part of. But since we're heavily tied in to europe, it made sense to me to create other links outside of Europe, to create similar and equal partnerships with other nations and groups, not focusing on building "Europe".

The world is going to become globally connected, why should the emphasis be "European"?

I'd rather European than American or Chinese, given the choice.

 

[George Hannah]

I am puzzled that Tusk sees no prospect of a backstop solution at all while insisting it is just insurance in the unlikely event one can't be found.