Another new Brexit thread

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George Hannah said:
They are exploiting the Irish Republic's constitutional commitments and ambitions to keep the UK within the EU trading area for an indefinite period while not a party to its control. Additionally, for the duration of the two-year transition stage + an indefinite backstop period, the entire UK remains subject to its existing EU trading arrangements and is not able to conclude new trade deals. This is not the case for the EU who can continue to conclude new deals throughout the transition period and beyond.
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You do realise it was the UK Government who asked for the backstop ?
 
How long ago was it when our PM set a pre-condition of removing the backstop before he would discuss a deal in Europe? One week or was it two?
I suppose he’s used to making himself look like a clueless fuckwit, so no problem.
 
George Hannah said:
There was never a time when the EU would agree to let us out, it's not in their interest. Their 'deal' is and has always been just a crash out after a two year delay for their own better preparation and economic realignment.
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That's your belief mate and you're entitled to it tbf.
 
George Hannah said:
They are exploiting the Irish Republic's constitutional commitments and ambitions to keep the UK within the EU trading area for an indefinite period while not a party to its control. Additionally, for the duration of the two-year transition stage + an indefinite backstop period, the entire UK remains subject to its existing EU trading arrangements and is not able to conclude new trade deals. This is not the case for the EU who can continue to conclude new deals throughout the transition period and beyond.
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Yet again P, these are your personal beliefs. Your government asked for these conditions.
 
George Hannah said:
They are exploiting the Irish Republic's constitutional commitments and ambitions to keep the UK within the EU trading area for an indefinite period while not a party to its control. Additionally, for the duration of the two-year transition stage + an indefinite backstop period, the entire UK remains subject to its existing EU trading arrangements and is not able to conclude new trade deals. This is not the case for the EU who can continue to conclude new deals throughout the transition period and beyond.
Click to expand...

You have this the wrong way round. The transition period was a UK request not an EU ask. The U.K. wide backstop was also a U.K. proposal. None of this is a plot or device to trap the U.K. It’s just the outcome of what the U.K. wants or is trying to do. We are committed to not putting a border in Ireland yet we also want to leave the regulatory framework of the EU which is what facilitates the absence of a border.

Borders are natural. It is the absence of borders that is unusual and it requires the regulatory and legal cooperation of the countries involved to remove the need for a border. In short you can’t have both. We can’t leave the shared regulatory and legal framework of the EU and expect no border. It is the EU framework that allows for no border in Ireland.

The EU will nor compromise on this because they cannot compromise on this. You are either in the EU regulatory and legal framework or you are not and if you are not we will have a hard border with the EU. Not just in Ireland but at every access point to the U.K. That is the reality.
 
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BobKowalski said:
You have this the wrong way round. The transition period was a UK request not an EU ask. The U.K. wide backstop was also a U.K. proposal. None of this is a plot or device to trap the U.K. It’s just the outcome of what the U.K. wants or is trying to do. We are committed to not putting a border in Ireland yet we also want to leave the regulatory framework of the EU which is what facilitates the absence of a border.

Borders are natural. It is the absence of borders that is unusual and it requires the regulatory and legal cooperation of the countries involved to remove the need for a border. In short you can’t have both. We can’t leave the shared regulatory and legal framework of the EU and expect no border. It is the EU framework that allows for no border in Ireland.

The EU will nor compromise on this because they cannot compromise on this. You are either in the EU regulatory and legal framework or you are not and if you are not we will have a hard border with the EU. Not just in Ireland but at every access point to the U.K. That is the reality.
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Logically this has always seemed true, and to blame the EU for this stand off is ridiculous. But they will.
 
Johnson’s current dilemma.

Firstly he has accepted it’s the UK’s responsibility to come up with a solution to the border issue and ordered Ministers and their minions to come up with something.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...nds-fresh-irish-border-plan-orders-ministers/

But just as he does this the ERG Tories pop up and warn that removing the backstop, let alone tweaking it, isn’t good enough to secure their support.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...arn-boris-johnson-stripping-northern-ireland/

So where does Johnson go from here? He can neither change Parliamentary arithmetic nor the EU position and no deal is just an admission that we cannot find a solution.

Quite the dilemma.
 
BobKowalski said:
You have this the wrong way round. The transition period was a UK request not an EU ask. The U.K. wide backstop was also a U.K. proposal. None of this is a plot or device to trap the U.K. It’s just the outcome of what the U.K. wants or is trying to do. We are committed to not putting a border in Ireland yet we also want to leave the regulatory framework of the EU which is what facilitates the absence of a border.

Borders are natural. It is the absence of borders that is unusual and it requires the regulatory and legal cooperation of the countries involved to remove the need for a border. In short you can’t have both. We can’t leave the shared regulatory and legal framework of the EU and expect no border. It is the EU framework that allows for no border in Ireland.

The EU will nor compromise on this because they cannot compromise on this. You are either in the EU regulatory and legal framework or you are not and if you are not we will have a hard border with the EU. Not just in Ireland but at every access point to the U.K. That is the reality.
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I was describing the conditions of the current treaty not the negotiating route. The EU originally wanted its danegeld before any trade deal and the transition period was indeed simply an instalment plan. The inclusion of the Irish border issues in the withdrawal agreement is a bargaining tool to hobble future trade negotiations and the backstop was our attempt to prevent the country being broken up. None of this is in dispute.
 
BobKowalski said:
Johnson’s current dilemma.

Firstly he has accepted it’s the UK’s responsibility to come up with a solution to the border issue and ordered Ministers and their minions to come up with something.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...nds-fresh-irish-border-plan-orders-ministers/

But just as he does this the ERG Tories pop up and warn that removing the backstop, let alone tweaking it, isn’t good enough to secure their support.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...arn-boris-johnson-stripping-northern-ireland/

So where does Johnson go from here? He can neither change Parliamentary arithmetic nor the EU position and no deal is just an admission that we cannot find a solution.

Quite the dilemma.
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He’ll claim that we did find a solution but the eu refused to be reasonable. He’s just getting his ducks in a row before the November election.
 
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