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blueinsa
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Felt it only right ;-)
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Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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Felt it only right ;-)
What a refreshing change to have a decent communicator at the helm, the alternative arrangements for the border are all perfectly reasonable and achievable given a decent transistional period and good will on both sides. I think the next move is for Boris to explain this to the public so that he can pin the blame on the EU if his plan is rejected, plus it buys some more time because a vote of no confidence in a PM whilst he’s so visibly trying to agree a deal would be a huge mistake imo. Boris has made an excellent start, expect to see a shift in the opinion polls coming soon.
Hahaha it’s nice to see Mcfc1632 is on his 2nd account.
Please do tell what these alternative arrangements are and how they will work?
I fully accept the divisions were there before the referendum, and I don't believe the outcome of that vote made those divisions worse, per se, but rather the absence of any plan in place about how to effectuate it. Instead we've been in limbo ever since with no realistic plan to even begin to bridge those divisions - in actual fact, each respective side has become more entrenched in the last three years.
I believe this could have been substantially avoided.
The cornerstone of democracy is a manifesto and the fact there wasn’t one attached to the referendum was criminal.
I am perfectly happy for us to leave, seeing as we voted to but the mandate is to leave with a deal. Nobody said in the build up to the referendum we wouldn’t have a deal at the end of the negotiations, nobody said we wouldn’t have a free trade agreement.
A no deal Brexit is suicide and if Johnson won’t last 6 months if he takes us down that path.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
Why keep repeating the same question? It has already been discussed on here, that there is a solution is implicit in the temporary nature of the backstop which is agreed by all parties.Please do tell what these alternative arrangements are and how they will work?
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
A no-deal Brexit would make the divisions far worse.A no deal Brexit is suicide and if Johnson won’t last 6 months if he takes us down that path.
Why keep repeating the same question? It has already been discussed on here, that there is a solution is implicit in the temporary nature of the backstop which is agreed by all parties.
No you don’t.
You can’t just keep repeating alternative arrangements with a lack of detail and expect the EU to take it.
The wishy washy ideas of an electronic border, checks away from border, checks at ports has already been dismissed by those in Ireland and NI several times.
A no-deal Brexit would make the divisions far worse.
The only way we can move on is to leave with a deal in my opinion.
I think remainers would suck it up, we’d have left so leave voters would eventually be happy enough.
It’s not looking likely what that deal will look like through.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
You need to examine more carefully why potential solutions that already operate successfully elsewhere are being dismissed and by whom. Goodwill is the key.No you don’t.
You can’t just keep repeating alternative arrangements with a lack of detail and expect the EU to take it.
The wishy washy ideas of an electronic border, checks away from border, checks at ports has already been dismissed by those in Ireland and NI several times.
There is a 200 page document that explains this in great detail.Hahaha it’s nice to see Mcfc1632 is on his 2nd account.
Please do tell what these alternative arrangements are and how they will work?
Nah. Brexit has created division that never existed. Within classes, within workplaces, within political parties, within homes, between football fans...I'd argue these division existed since and possibly were invented by the Tory/New Labour Governments in the 1990s. As post-manufacturing Britain took hold, we started to develop a have/have-nots between the middle and lower classes and Brexit and the other societal turmoil we find ourselves in is in part a consequence of this.
And all over something that only a small minority really cared about.
You need to examine more carefully why potential solutions that already operate successfully elsewhere are being dismissed and by whom. Goodwill is the key.
No, you need to give detail on what these solutions are and how they will work.
How do you expect us to go along with it if there’s no detail?
Why would NI be saying no to them?
There is a 200 page document that explains this in great detail.
And it’s been dismissed 200 times.
NI’s entire business sector had thrown it out as being the death of them.
So how’s it going to work?
I think the point is he is a great communicator so he will sell the snake oil that Theresa was too saintly to offer to the public.Hahaha it’s nice to see Mcfc1632 is on his 2nd account.
Please do tell what these alternative arrangements are and how they will work?
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George Hannah
Well-Known Member
The detail is in the AA Report linked and discussed as recently as yesterday evening on this thread. The whole point is that they will not be accepted by the EU/Irish Republic etc while they think the HoP Remain majority can still thwart the democratic decision of this country.No, you need to give detail on what these solutions are and how they will work.
How do you expect us to go along with it if there’s no detail? Why would NI be saying no to them?
It's that obvious and it's also utterly despicable to exploit sectarian divisions and risk bloodshed for economic advantage.
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Exactly. If that is true, what's the problem with the backstop?Why keep repeating the same question? It has already been discussed on here, that there is a solution is implicit in the temporary nature of the backstop which is agreed by all parties.
Two years. Enough time for all businesses affected to register online as a trusted trader and for the online declaration system to bed in so no need for paperwork at the border.Define decent transitional time. A year? Three? Five? And all the while we are subject to EU rules and regs with no say. You think Farage, Brexiteers in the Tory ranks, the Brexit supporting media are not going to bang on about this morning, noon and night? Do you think any arrangements that could take years to develop are going to pass through Parliament? And what if we can’t get these arrangements to work? Do we come out of transition anyway? Is there a backstop as insurance against this happening?
As for goodwill. Leaving aside that there is precious little of this left you will need the buy in of the people of NI whose business lobby has already trashed the arrangements as cumbersome and imposing additional costs. So we take away a system that the people of NI like to impose a system they neither like nor voted for on firms and people many of whom situated in border counties which heavily vote for Sinn Fein and you reckon they will happily embrace this new way of doing things as ordered by the ‘Brits’? Good luck with that.
Checks will be needed but they will be carried out on site or be intelligence led and carried out away from the border. All perfectly reasonable stuff.
And those who want it are a small minority.A no-deal Brexit would make the divisions far worse.
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The detail is in the AA Report linked and discussed as recently as yesterday evening on this thread. The whole point is that they will not be accepted by the EU/Irish Republic etc while they think the HoP Remain majority can still thwart the democratc decision of this country. It's that obvious and it's also utterly despicable to exploit sectarian divisions and risk bloodshed for economic advantage.
Stop repeating there’s a report, it’s not just been dismissed by the EU and Irish Government, it’s also been dismissed in NI and Boris isn’t even selling it.
What does that tell you?
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
Simply that it is being used as a bargaining chip for future trade negotiations by locking the UK into EU regulations through inclusion in the WA.Exactly. If that is true, what's the problem with the backstop?
It should just be the agreed framework for resolution of the difficult Irish border issues in a future EU trade deal post Brexit.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
That you misuse the word 'dismissed' and seem unable to reflect upon or debate the serious issues involved rationally.Stop repeating there’s a report, it’s not just been dismissed by the EU and Irish Government, it’s also been dismissed in NI and Boris isn’t even selling it. What does that tell you?
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