Another new Brexit thread

[Vic]

I would think that there is a pretty obvious strategy for Johnson here

He knows that he is not going to get a change to the WA

He knows that Labour will not support any changed deal anyway - they are just looking to secure power and that is far more important to them than a good outcome that delivers on the referendum

So he should simply do what he is doing - ensure that the EU is seen as the 'bad guy' and make that clear in many peoples minds

Make sure that Labour & LibDems are seen as those responsible for forcing another extension on the UK

Undertake a major PR campaign to emphasise these positions in the minds of all those voters that are not close-minded EU sycophants

Call an election campaigning on leaving the EU, ideally with a deal and also with a vote being held in N.I. to enable N.I. to determine for themselves whether there should be a sea or land border - thereby closing down that issue. Obviously he would need to secure a majority and not rely on the DUP

Now it is a gamble - he may not win a majority.

I suspect though, given the large number of Remain constituencies in the south that would not vote Labour under any circumstances and the number of marginal seats - he just might.

The prospects are increased due to the LibDems and a confused Labour causing a split in the remain vote in a lot of marginal constituencies

Conveniently ignores the Brexit party vote and that "ideally with a deal" must be the most vacuous election slogan since, well, strong and stable.

 

[Saddleworth2]

"Change" is the most powerful word in politics in the 21st century.

Obama ran on Change, Cameron ran on Change, UKIP and Leave ran on Change, Corbyn ran on Change, Trump ran on Change.

It's a bit sad to say really but the secret of getting elected seems to be saying the word change 100 times an hour and hope that nobody asks for the details.

Unfortunately for Change UK, when they said that they're here to change politics, literally the first question asked in their first press conference was "how?". They were dead in the water immediately.

And yet human nature is mostly change resistant. Strange isn’t it? I guess it’s a numbers game. The acceptance of political change is determined by how good or bad you feel about the status quo.

 

[Ban-jani]

So you say that you cannot be arsed replying to me - as you type out a reply to me

You so neeeeed the last word

And I love how you say:

"We told you this and you didn’t believe it."

Why would I - I happen to clearly know that you are utterly wrong - it is a theme

P.s. don't forget that you cannot be arsed replying to me - so don't prove yourself wrong again​

Please stop with the “must have the last word nonsense”, if you’re asking me questions or trying to debate I’ll obviously respond in some way.

I meant I can’t be arsed replying in full.

I’m not utterly wrong - have the EU budged on the backstop? Has no deal worked in that regard?

No it clearly hasn’t, so I’m correct.

 

[mcfc1632]

I was talking about the EU, We will not be able to work or live there, but UK businesses will be able to close down businesses here and move their business to Europe.

Ooops - you need to think this through - but if you believe this you help explain the views of a lot of Remainers on here

 

[mcfc1632]

There’s a rumour flying around that people regularly used to live and work in other European countries before the EU existed. I think it’s another lie spread by the stupid facists that voted Leave ;)

I did for years and did not realise that I was doing anything illegal......

 

[Ban-jani]

Just to help me.....

From which country did he come?

What process was followed to allow his entry into the UK?

Re:

"What I object to is his desire to close this route to other non Brits, such as EU citizens..."

Is Brexit stopping people from that country and other countries coming to the UK so long as they follow the process? Is Brexit going to prevent EU citizens coming to the UK so long as they follow the processes to be established?

Going further - do you not realise that FOM is inherently discriminatory against immigration to the UK from outside the EU?

Do you think that you might need to reconsider your position on this topic?

I don’t disagree with any of that.

 

[lust overlord]

I did for years and did not realise that I was doing anything illegal......

Deported for being right all the time?
;)

 

[KS55]

Piccanninies with water melon smiles. Letterboxes. People speaking funny on trains.

White people said those things.

White people who voted leave

White people who I could not vote for despite seeing the benefit in lexit

The one thing nobody can argue about is that the referendum has allowed the normalisation of language that pre-referendum people in general would have considered abhorrent. That is one of the real tragedies of the referendum, it has allowed the rise of the right wing populists with their faux patriotism and overt nationalism.

There is nothing more idiotic than seeing a bloke in a Crusaders outfit supporting Brexit arguing with a Guardian reading Remainer holding a Costa coffee cup. That is the miserable state of UK politics today.

Have we really so little shame

Except that right wing populist parties exist right across the EU, and those countries have not had exit referendums. The rise of these parties is caused by a feeling of helplessness, powerlessness, somebody far away making decisions ppl don't like and over which they have no control. Think back to those occasions where there were referenda, and the EU's response was: "sorry, wrong answer, vote again" The 'project' is part of the problem. The EU needs to reform itself: even the French voted against the proposed constitution, and yet we effectively have it.

 

[mcfc1632]

But every racist never voted leave did they. Dianne Abbott Jeremy Corbyn?

That’s what I am telling you . Your statement is wrong and a lazy cliche been debated on here over and over again and proven to be wrong.

Debating Abbot and Corbyn is a convenient distraction - I personally know 2 people, just normal citizens, that are clearly racist - based on the true (even all, including the one just offered by Damocles) definitions - that voted Remain.

So the presumption that every racist voted leave is factually, clearly and simply wrong.

If I know 2, then...…

This fabrication has been lazily used for 3 years to demean Leavers - it has been wrong for 3 years

 

[mcfc1632]

That's racist.

Oh fuck - my daughter just asked why I am laughing

Proper good response

 

[mcfc1632]

remainers call us thick......we have to crash out
Dianne Abbot is a racist.....we have to crash out
the back-stop is the worst thing ever invented ever...we have to crash out
the EU are being awkward....we have to crash out
JC and the labour party are anti-jews.... we have to crash out
the people voted to crash out....we have to crash out
the "trajectory", we really really have to er er crash out
the gfa is the work of the devil, we have to crash out
global warming....we have to crash out
var....we have to crash out
project fear....we have to crash out
Amazon forest ablaze....just a matter of time before that joins the list.
trump says we should crash out, farage says we must crash out, jrm says we must crash out, bojiac is prepared to ignore parliament to enable crashing out, murdoch is paying to force a crash-out, same with rothermere, dacre, banks, not to mention millions spent on social media by vested interests...all of them desperately defending "democracy".
Yeah right.....

To bring an end to the bellbuzzer rants - we have to crash out

 

[mcfc1632]

Serious question mate as I know you actually think things through.

If there is no hard border will that in your opinion mean there is still freedom of movement?

I think it is fair to say that immigration concerns played a significant part in the Pro- Brexit vote, assuming that, will the people who still want to come to this country just do so through the Republic rather than come across the channel. Surely it leaves the back door open to the UK and makes border controls in the UK a rather pointless exercise.

I like this question - just out for a while and will answer when back

 

[robbieh]

Many people wanted Brexit in order to stop EU citizens coming to the UK and taking jobs we could do. The end of freedom of movement will achieve that. What I don't understand is why some on here think that's a one way street. Currently it is much easier for Brits to work in the EU than Australians, Americans and others precisely because we are part of the club.

 

[Vic]

I did not say that they 'wish' to damage the UK

I am saying that they 'choose' to risk/accept significant damage to the UK in their pursuit of 'Remaining'

I am absolutely correct - IMO

Whereas you know Brexit will cause significant damage to the UK and that's OK.

You should give up the insinuations that Remainers do not have their own country's best interests at heart.

I think you use "sycophant" as a weasel word and you'd like to say "traitor" or "enemy".

 

[Vic]

Oh - you're good

You certainly are the expert in sycophancy.

 

[Ban-jani]

Oh fuck - my daughter just asked why I am laughing

Proper good response

I’m presuming you saved yourself the embarrassment and didn’t tell her why.

 

[yerwot?]

When all else fails, you know, the lies on the bus( go round and round, round and round)
the 70m turks, the easiest deal in history, conscription to the phantom army, world domination, lies-on-a-loop really, the puerile memes, the sneering condescension , the victim card, the "technology delusion" the cries of "not fair", the bogy-man backstop monster( took three years to hatch but apparently the biggest stitch-up in history lol)
then time has come to wheel out the poor old "democracy" joker.
Shameless, desperate reliance on spin, as though the 30 year campaign against the EU had no effect on a referendum, on a public sick and tired of austerity , of being ignored by westminster, of always losing out to the south-east, constantly being told it was the EU behind every erosion of living standards. Constantly, constantly whining that "democracy" demands we have to "honour the vote or else it's the end of the world" is like a toddler clinging to a comfort blanket that is shredded and full of holes.
When someone is convicted and sentenced, only for incontrovertible evidence to emerge that the accusers (brexit) had lied and lied, then a retrial at least is the outcome but using brexit dogma that would be "undemocratic". A sort of collateral damage excuse if ever there was one. A neutral arbiter, given the facts, would have no choice but to tell the country to pull back from the headlong stampede, decide on parameters for a referendum that took in every feasible outcome, a super-majority, an agreement (not a f'kin diktat) on eligibility to vote, and do nothing until the outcome of criminal investigations into illegal interference by brexit paymasters was resolved. Not as satisfactory as "revoke" but next best thing.

 

[Vic]

Just to help me.....

From which country did he come?

What process was followed to allow his entry into the UK?

Re:

"What I object to is his desire to close this route to other non Brits, such as EU citizens..."

Is Brexit stopping people from that country and other countries coming to the UK so long as they follow the process? Is Brexit going to prevent EU citizens coming to the UK so long as they follow the processes to be established?

Going further - do you not realise that FOM is inherently discriminatory against immigration to the UK from outside the EU?

Do you think that you might need to reconsider your position on this topic?

Well, what we know so far...

He's described as British, born in Pakistan, his father waa Pakistani but no mention of his mother, he says his parents weren't rich but he went to a posh public school, he owns property companies and a lot of subsidiaries are in Poland. And he described immigration as a Ponzi scheme.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I am sure we are all excited to see whether England can turn it round today (as well as a city win) , you will see they now do in game win predicters on Sky with the various options given as a % during the game

Let’s play brexit predictor I think it’s .....

Leave with a deal 31/10 45%

Leave with no deal 31/10 25%

Revoke on 31/10 10%

Extend again on 31/10 20%

 

[Vic]

At least it’s chicken unlike the horse disguised as beef we all got to endure.

Serious question here how many people have died eating chlorinated chicken?

In the USA, despite chlorination, about 500 a year hospitalised and a dozen dead.