Var debate 2019/20

SWP's back said:
Course you can. As was pointed out by several people yesterday, there have been lots of times when new directives implemented in the first few weeks of a season have been quietly dropped.

Why would you cut off your nose to spite your face? Next time we aren’t given a penalty and var can’t overrule the ref, are you going to feel better? Surely we only want to receive the decisions we deserve going forward. Yet you’d want to deny us that?

Makes zero sense.

Ps, the bar has fuck all to do with handball so of course they wouldn’t give us two extra points. They aren’t talking about changing their interpretation of the handball rule.

But other than that, great post.
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Wasn't talking about the handball though was I?
 
onceabluealways said:
I think one of the key points is the top refs are on the pitch, the VAR refs are second or third level so probably don’t want to upset the apple cart. It seems that bar is being used to disallow goals whenever but not correct bad decisions in the attackers favour.

I think with car the offside rule should be feet only as strikers naturally lean forward to look across the line which is putting them offside.

The celebration issue ruling out loads of goals will eventually stop some supporters going to games
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I've maintained a long time that offside should be judged by your feet, that is your absolute position on the field and very easy to measure.
the current rule has too many variables. leaning and body parts, wtf?
as it is, it could happen that both defender and attacker could be leaning on the same angle and the attacker could be offside because he is taller! dumb.
 
@BluePhil8 said:
Wasn't talking about the handball though was I?
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We dropped two points due to the handball. The penalty was at 1-1 wasn’t it? We scored again after, the whole match changes.

Either way, do you not agree with the rest of my post? Why fuck ourselves for the rest of the season by ensuring we keep missing out on penalties?
 
So to be clear.
1. PGMOL has changed the rules for PL games.
2. As far as I am aware the FA has not, so different rules are applied to all other matches, including the Carabou Cup.
3. Different rules apply to European competitions where normally VAR will be in place with pitchside reviews for referees.
4. In International games, rules will apply as per 3.

The question is why the different rules/laws and a different process by PGMOL?
 
spiny said:
So to be clear.
1. PGMOL has changed the rules for PL games.
2. As far as I am aware the FA has not, so different rules are applied to all other matches, including the Carabou Cup.
3. Different rules apply to European competitions where normally VAR will be in place with pitchside reviews for referees.
4. In International games, rules will apply as per 3.

The question is why the different rules/laws and a different process by PGMOL?
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Because they are cûnts
 
cibaman said:
2. I don’t agree entirely with the concept of the VAR officials overruling the match ref, especially on 50/50 calls. The problem at the moment is the high bar threshold. The same basic approach works perfectly well in rugby league, the ref makes his call and the video ref only overrules if there’s clear evidence it’s wrong. The difference is that rugby league video refs apply that principle using common sense.

4. 13cm + is too big a margin of error for the vast majority of offside calls. If linemen had been keeping their flags down for offsides of that magnitude there would have been riots. 5 cm is enough

5. Nobody would ever be proven to have dived if those penalties were in place. The inevitable legal challenge would result in the courts throwing it out

6. See 5
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2. As long as the VAR process ensures “correct” decisions are made I’d be happy with whatever works best. If we have transparency in the communication between the on field officials and VAR officials that’ll eradicate a lot of the fans frustrations.

4. Reducing the margin of error to 5cm would mean some goals would be “incorrectly” ruled out. Football is an entertainment business and fans want goals, so that doesn’t make sense to me. We would also get some goals “incorrectly” awarded but as long as everyone knows the process and understands the reasons why I think fans would be happier seeing more goals.

5 & 6. Fair enough, I suppose you can’t make them forfeit wages but clubs could fine players (good PR to be seen promoting fair play) and donate it to charity to avoid the legal battles. Not sure how it would work for officials but a similar PR related donation system.
 
spiny said:
So to be clear.
1. PGMOL has changed the rules for PL games.
2. As far as I am aware the FA has not, so different rules are applied to all other matches, including the Carabou Cup.
3. Different rules apply to European competitions where normally VAR will be in place with pitchside reviews for referees.
4. In International games, rules will apply as per 3.

The question is why the different rules/laws and a different process by PGMOL?
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Because they are busy ****s who think they are clever
 
ctid1894 said:
2. As long as the VAR process ensures “correct” decisions are made I’d be happy with whatever works best. If we have transparency in the communication between the on field officials and VAR officials that’ll eradicate a lot of the fans frustrations.

4. Reducing the margin of error to 5cm would mean some goals would be “incorrectly” ruled out. Football is an entertainment business and fans want goals, so that doesn’t make sense to me. We would also get some goals “incorrectly” awarded but as long as everyone knows the process and understands the reasons why I think fans would be happier seeing more goals.

5 & 6. Fair enough, I suppose you can’t make them forfeit wages but clubs could fine players (good PR to be seen promoting fair play) and donate it to charity to avoid the legal battles. Not sure how it would work for officials but a similar PR related donation system.
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5cm is not enough,the equipement they are using is not fast enough to measure that close,they need to work out a comfortable margin of error,tell us what it is and stick to it
 
I’d drop it for anything non subjective until the end of the season and work out a plan for proper implementation that I think also has to be as transparent as possible by providing reasoning into decisions after games. I imagine that will get support from all clubs too considering the amount of players and managers already speaking out about it.

If that is to work though, I do think it will require a bit of a step change in thought from fans as well - if it doesn’t start from a position of respect and trust that they’re at least attempting to do the right thing then it will never stand a chance. It works in other sports partly because there are far less subjective decisions to make (instead being more binary decisions like cricket or tennis) but also there isn’t the same underlying emotion. It’s not even pantomime villainy nowadays with the way fans react and treat referees, it can be real hatred and disdain. That coupled with natural partisanship can lead to people being less capable of objectivity than the referees they accuse of the same behaviour (some posts on this thread are examples of it tbh).
 
Every player wears those weird “football bras” with trackers. Put one positional tracker on the front and one on the back of the equipment worn by each player and use whichever is closest to the goal to check for offside. Then Take two frames - the one before the ball is touched and the first one when it is touched. Highlight those two frames and a computer does the rest. Easy peasy. Must be offside in both frames. No margin for error required
 
meltonblue said:
I’d drop it for anything non subjective until the end of the season and work out a plan for proper implementation that I think also has to be as transparent as possible by providing reasoning into decisions after games. I imagine that will get support from all clubs too considering the amount of players and managers already speaking out about it.

If that is to work though, I do think it will require a bit of a step change in thought from fans as well - if it doesn’t start from a position of respect and trust that they’re at least attempting to do the right thing then it will never stand a chance. It works in other sports partly because there are far less subjective decisions to make (instead being more binary decisions like cricket or tennis) but also there isn’t the same underlying emotion. It’s not even pantomime villainy nowadays with the way fans react and treat referees, it can be real hatred and disdain. That coupled with natural partisanship can lead to people being less capable of objectivity than the referees they accuse of the same behaviour (some posts on this thread are examples of it tbh).
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The officials have to earn trust,there are far too many differences in how they treat different clubs,we have had the shitty stick for a long time whilst the rags and dippers get away with murder,what about the treatment we have had in the last 3 games already would you give them trust for that? we don't have to give them an inch,they are taking the rules of football and fucking about with them for no reason,correcting errors is all they needed to do,not a singledecision has been overturned,the refs aren't allowed to look at the monitor,everything they have done so far is to cover their own backs,they are sticking together like glue,why do you want to trust that?they can't be allowed to cheat in plain sight
 
manimanc said:

Interesting vid. Yep only the Australian league but a bit of an insight into how it works.
Can't say it'll catch on here though.
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That is absolutely brilliant, the transparency of having the officials like mic’d up like that would mean fans were far more lenient with the odd mistakes. You can tell when someone is being honest and genuine and just giving an open account of what they saw.

It would also hugely cut down the dissent from players and managers because they would have a better understanding of why decisions were made. If we heard referees saying “free kick there if you want it” to Bernardo for example, who then subsequently loses possession a second after he’s said no, it would completely change fans perspectives.
 
spiny said:
So to be clear.
1. PGMOL has changed the rules for PL games.
2. As far as I am aware the FA has not, so different rules are applied to all other matches, including the Carabou Cup.
3. Different rules apply to European competitions where normally VAR will be in place with pitchside reviews for referees.
4. In International games, rules will apply as per 3.

The question is why the different rules/laws and a different process by PGMOL?
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PGMOL take charge of cup games as well so I doing it for 2.

3 and 4 is correct though.
 
karen7 said:
5cm is not enough,the equipement they are using is not fast enough to measure that close,they need to work out a comfortable margin of error,tell us what it is and stick to it
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I completely agree, I can’t remember whether I worked it out to be accurate to 13 or 38cm in all fairness, I’ve slept since then. You can’t possibly reduce the acceptable margin of error below whatever was accurate because you would potentially rule out fair goals. That’s why I disagreed with the previous poster @cibaman.

If we get some goals that are possibly offside within that fall within that margin of error but everyone knows the rules then so be it.
 
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