Another new Brexit thread

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hgblue said:
From the perspective of Leavers, in order to get this improved deal Boris needs no deal to be on the table, and Parliament was getting busy again trying to scupper that. They say they want to stop no deal, I don't believe them, this was simply a cunning ruse Remainers had hit upon to stop Brexit. Just look at the rogues gallery of avid Remainers who were behind this move. So if we can keep no deal on the table and the EU sees that this is a likely outcome we will finally find out how happy they are to see this happen, and those of us who have been saying that this is the key to getting a deal will ultimately be proved correct, and imo that is the real reason Remainers are upset.
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It’s a Withdrawal Agreement that only deals with three issues so what exactly is this ‘better deal’? £30 billion rather than £39 billion? Not dealing with citizens rights? Not trying to protect the peace process in NI? For what it’s worth Labour had little issue with the WA. It was the political declaration, the future declaration of travel, that they objected to and that the EU will happily change as much as we like.

People bang on about this ‘better deal’ but can we have some specifics? Precisely what are we hoping to achieve that requires us to embrace a no deal outcome?
 
inbetween said:
MP's could of proposed the best case alternatives like EFTA which would of directly prevented no deal, reunited the country AND delivered Brexit. Where have these alternatives been? In fact where has remain been for the ENTIRE debate on alternatives?
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Did you miss the series of indicative votes in the HoC earlier this year on a variety of options including Common Market 2, which was essentially EEA/EFTA by another name?
 
To see Johnson and his fellow conspirators claiming their latest "wheeze" is nothing to do with stifling parliament, in fact it's "normal"; and the resultant euphoric banners in the press, confirm just how dire the future is for this country. The very rich in the UK will make a mountain of cash from the collapse of businesses and property, just like they did from the ERM fiasco, but for the population at large....the trap-door is creaking and the brexits are jumping up and down on it
 
cibaman said:
Every time he pulls off stunts like this he just fires up the ERG, raises their expectations, and makes it more difficult for himself to negotiate a deal that they would accept
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They won't vote of anything now. They can see 'no deal' is close(or so they believe). If it comes to it, I think Johnson will blink. The only possible way he could sell to the people that no-deal was the EU's fault was if he made a counter offer which was, at least in his mind, reasonable and it was rejected - no such proposal has been made yet
 
hgblue said:
From the perspective of Leavers, in order to get this improved deal Boris needs no deal to be on the table, and Parliament was getting busy again trying to scupper that. They say they want to stop no deal, I don't believe them, this was simply a cunning ruse Remainers had hit upon to stop Brexit. Just look at the rogues gallery of avid Remainers who were behind this move. So if we can keep no deal on the table and the EU sees that this is a likely outcome we will finally find out how happy they are to see this happen, and those of us who have been saying that this is the key to getting a deal will ultimately be proved correct, and imo that is the real reason Remainers are upset.
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When the only deal is May's deal which most if not all Brexiters on here said was worse than remaining and some said was worse than No Deal, does that count as being proved correct? The reason Remainers and in fact anyone with half a brain isn't particularly happy at the moment is that Johnson appears to be seriously contemplating a ruinous No Deal that is much worse for us than the EU, in a half hearted pursuit of an imaginary deal that is not in the EU's interests to give us. In reality he wants to nullify the BXP and maintain his position as PM, and if that takes No Deal, so be it.
 
carlosthejackal said:
Rees Mogg claimed this morning that prorogation is justified by the fact that parliament blocked Brexit, which when you consider he voted against the deal put before parliament by May !!
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He just lied. But because of English deference people will blindly accept him at his word. The man is a fucking charlatan.
 
carlosthejackal said:
Rees Mogg claimed this morning that prorogation is justified by the fact that parliament blocked Brexit, which when you consider he voted against the deal put before parliament by May !!
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To be fair to the Victorian loving oddball,if the government had adopted his idea of another referendum with deal options (no remain or no deal)to vote on,we'd probably have been out now.
 
George Hannah said:
I can see why you omitted the Sunny source lol
btw - in all references to Boris doing something clever read Cummings.
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Not really. I usually attribute. The two journos I rate are Gutteridge (Sun) and Foster (Telegraph). And both of them work for very Brexity papers. Not a fan of echo chambers.

Oh and I would lay off the Cummings kool-aid. All Cummings, or whoever, is doing is uniting and firing up the opposition. What is needed is leaders to try and bring people together, to try and bring the country together and try and bring the four countries of our Union together. What is being done is the exact opposite of that. The Govt is driving people apart. It is doubling down on May’s failed strategy of not building a consensus. It seeks to divide because for it to survive it needs to divide yet that division will kill Brexit. Forcing the country and Parliament into a no deal Brexit or forcing the country and Parliament into accepting a WA it cannot stomach is not going to bring peace and harmony. It will just bring years of rancour and resentment. Either way we lose.
 
cibaman said:
If you apply that principle generally then you might as well abolish most elections since it’s rare for them to produce a winner with the support of 50%+ of the population. How many of our governments, local councils etc ever received that level of support?
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Not really .... because we know that the outcome of Elections is binding.... that was not the case with the referendum . We were told it was 'advisory' .....They also denied votes to a large percentage of people who's futures were reliant on the outcome.




and they lied.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Herr Flick GIF incoming.
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jacobreesmogg-1.png



Heres one I prepared earlier.....
 
Blue Hefner said:
Well we should be. Immediately. what is the point in leaving, having our cake and eating it and letting Johnny Foreigner walk in visa free?

Please note - I am not entirely serious but I can see the contradiction
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No, sorry - you are missing the point

The intention is to have CONTROL over our borders

Self-determination not to put a physical/hard border in place is an excellent example of exercising control
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
It's exactly where I once grew up (not that it should define anybody) that I have complete empathy for communities that were left behind long ago, and have certainly seen little benefit of being in Europe.

As for my own children, they will be just fine. They will contribute to society in their way and if they want to spread their wings one day, they still will.
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Calm, considered and factual response to what I thought was an unnecessarily personal attack
 
lancs blue said:
Did you miss the series of indicative votes in the HoC earlier this year on a variety of options including Common Market 2, which was essentially EEA/EFTA by another name?
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Of course, but EFTA in particular was the softest and most workable Brexit solution (given its already effectively in place) so why did they vote against it?

My guess is pretty simple, they didn't want any of the options because they wanted remain and obviously hardline Brexiteers stuck to their guns for a harder deal or no deal at all.

Remain wasn't on the table though so the legislative default aka the hardline no deal is the defacto route of last resort.
 
A Tory MP trying to rationalise the Govts actions. Too wordy. Too long. As soon as you feel the need to justify something and take forever doing so means you know in your gut it’s wrong.

Accepts people would expect MPs to sit during these testing times but protests they wouldn’t normally sit during Sept (well these ain’t normal times) and squirms over the fact that MPs were to discuss doing away with the three week Sept recess. Ends with ‘well we must hold our nerve’. So three years in and it’s still about ‘nerve’ and ‘spirit’. Ah well.

https://jamescartlidge-admin.conservativewebsites.org.uk/news/statement-prorogation
 
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