Another new Brexit thread

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You may be right, but do you realise you are just like a remain version of Farage with your tall tales of the 'sunny uplands' of post brexit EU. If you can bear to look at any objective analysis of the EU, it's a financial timebomb and the UK leaving (or remaining) does very little to change this.
I’m not talking about Remain. I’m talking about leaving the biggest trading bloc in the world where we have the primary financial services hub with No Deal, and hence no protection for those services. The huge companies that provide these services have already moved a lot of assets out of the UK and are increasing their presence elsewhere in Europe. These are facts unlike the lies peddled by Farage.
 
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Why is Germany on the brink of recession then with France not far behind ?

We have an excuse of Brexit uncertainty what is their excuse they are insulated by economic trade winds aren’t they being in the Eu ?
Germany’s economy is much more dependent on manufacturing than most and worldwide and domestic demand is down. Brexit doesn’t help but it’s cyclical.
 
Catching up on Ch4 News. Jeremy Corbyn has to be the most uninspiring, uncharismatic politician ever.

No wonder Johnson thinks he can pull off an outrageous stunt like this when there's such an unelectable personality vacuum in opposition.

This should have been the Labour Party's moment to shine, yet here he is mumbling and bumbling into the mic making no coherent argument whatsoever.

A government of cunts opposed by someone so far out of his depth he's struggling to breathe. Thoroughly depressing on all fronts.
 
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Oh right.

And the U.K. and other economies aren’t cyclical are they ?
Of course they are. But crashing out of the EU with No Deal will lead to a much bigger downturn than the next upturn. If you think I’m simply arguing from a Remain perspective you’re wrong and you’ve fallen for Johnson and Rees Mogg’s bullshit. I’m arguing against No Deal. An exit arrangement that could transition us into a free trade deal with the EEA countries whilst being outside the EU would satisfy the vote and only screw up the economy by a tolerable amount. We’re a million miles from that though. We’re facing No Deal or a deal that all the Brexiters hate that the Johnson government have adamantly dismissed. Any other deal is fantasy bollocks.
 
Ok, So I’m a remainder at heart, mainly because I’ve been all over the shop and believe that the quicker the world works together the better.
This thread is horrendous though, I mean, what chance have we got if the general concensus around the country is similar to what this thread represents.
You’re all going to be fucked one way or another. There’s no winners or loser, just serious unrest and a divide that will be close to impossible to fix.
I don’t normally enjoy the ‘I’m alright jack’ attitude but for once I’m glad that whatever happens won’t destroy me or my family.
For those who will suffer, I can only pass on my hope for the best.
 
Ok, So I’m a remainder at heart, mainly because I’ve been all over the shop and believe that the quicker the world works together the better.
This thread is horrendous though, I mean, what chance have we got if the general concensus around the country is similar to what this thread represents.
You’re all going to be fucked one way or another. There’s no winners or loser, just serious unrest and a divide that will be close to impossible to fix.
I don’t normally enjoy the ‘I’m alright jack’ attitude but for once I’m glad that whatever happens won’t destroy me or my family.
For those who will suffer, I can only pass on my hope for the best.
You're right. The country's fcuked whatever happens now.
And all because a TORY Prime Minister tried to solve a difficulty in the TORY party by calling a referendum.
# Tory Brexit
# Tory crisis
 
Screenshot-2019-08-29-at-22-43-13.png
 
They've done a frankly brilliant job of shutting up anyone on the left who spoke against the EU, going back years. Some have been bought off (Kinnock is the obvious example). Some were systematically and constantly ridiculed, Benn etc, and many have died. The modern day left , in my humble opinion, have become less about how to help people who need it most, and more about how to beat the evil Tories. Not a bad thing in itself (beating the tories) but self defeating, as they saw the only way to beat the tories was to ape many aspects of them. Notably their perceived "economic prowess" (a sick joke but one they've happily swallowed for years.)

It's always made me laugh , and then gnash my teeth, that the narrative that only tories reject the EU has taken such a hold in this country. To be fair, they've set the trap fantastically and we've fallen into it for years.

The real joke though, is that in Greece, spain, and much of southern Europe it is the youth (hate that phrase but you know what I mean) and the left of politics that are anti EU. The banks, the businesses, the millionaire (white obviously) agri-businesses (who successfully shut out African and Asian food producers) are the EU's biggest proponents and beneficiaries.

I'm all for the long game. Get out first and foremost, find a real leader who believes in socialism (not a useful idiot ) and reshape the country. It'll take years, maybe decades, but whilst we're in the EU it will never happen.
There are quite view of us that have been pointing out these views - even if we are not as 'left-leaning' as Rascal and yourself - it is just simple fact that all who are genuinely seeking the implementation of socialist policies should want to see the UK leave the EU

How to you explain that many of the most ardent Remain supporters on here see themselves as being 'hard-left' - are they just 'faux socialist'? are they just confused?
 
There are quite view of us that have been pointing out these views - even if we are not as 'left-leaning' as Rascal and yourself - it is just simple fact that all who are genuinely seeking the implementation of socialist policies should want to see the UK leave the EU

How to you explain that many of the most ardent Remain supporters on here see themselves as being 'hard-left' - are they just 'faux socialist'? are they just confused?

I think many people (in life not just on here) style themselves as "liberals" or (what the yanks call) "progressives" and think that makes them left wing.

They are the people that I think of as "leafy suburban socialists". Or "Nimby socialists" ie: I like talking about how much I care about people that are struggling and am happy to talk about what I would like to do for them but if you dare suggest turning off the tap of unlimited, cheap labour I shall scream and scream until I am sick.

That said, I know from life, there are loads of people who DO genuinely care and absolutely are truly on the left of the political spectrum who also happen to favour remain. I think they are badly wrong but I don't doubt their sincerity. I don't know rascal from adam for example, but I don't doubt the sincerity of his views. Or many others on this thread. I still think they're wrong .

It's the professional politicians I reserve my ire for. Corbyn, Yvette cooper, chuka umuna et Al . All hypocrites and liars. I hate farage but I believe that politically he is far more honest than the 3 i mentioned.
I wouldn't (just couldn't) vote for him but he's far more honest than many modern day politicians. Whatever side of the spectrum you're on, if you want brexit you owe him a debt of thanks for without him we wouldnt have had the chance .

I'm also a pessimist these days. I'm still of the belief that Boris is doing this hoping to be stopped so he can turn around and said "I tried but those damn remainers ganged up against us" and that way he could potentially win a GE AND get (what I think is his true wish) to keep us in the EU.

It's turned is all into cynics the last few years. And with good reason .
 
Oh right.

And the U.K. and other economies aren’t cyclical are they ?

Not remember boom and bust ?

The big danger is the Yank economy going into recession, they have an inverted yield curve on long term bonds which is an indicator of a worldwide downturn. Ally that to Trumps idiotic trade war with China and a global recession looks fairly likely. Investment is slumping and there is a an issue that because the west have such low interest rates then central banks are limited in fiscal response to a downturn. The saving grace is that American companies with less exposure to Sino finance are seeing investment rise. So it may be averted. Britains problem is productivity and any deceleration in investment after Brexit will be magnified which will affect productivity even more. Its the uncertainty of BREXIT that is not helping the UK and productivity is around 3% lower than it should have been although this is partly down to planning for BREXIT. German bond yields are all negative but since 2008 that is the new normal. Of the other indicators of impending recession is the price of Gold is soaring and the price of copper is declining. There is a general worry that the West may become like Japan which has had a long period of stagflation, inflation you see is sometimes a good thing.

So as ever its the unknowns that are causing the economic worries. And as i have forgotten most of what i used to know as i am an old fucker just take it as things are not so well in the world at the moment. Its not BREXITs fault although it has an impact but if things do go tits up we may not be in the best position to cope.
 
Genoese Galloway summed it up tonight. 17.5 million Brit’s have been cheated by those crying about a coup.

All that really needs to be said on it.
 
The big danger is the Yank economy going into recession, they have an inverted yield curve on long term bonds which is an indicator of a worldwide downturn. Ally that to Trumps idiotic trade war with China and a global recession looks fairly likely. Investment is slumping and there is a an issue that because the west have such low interest rates then central banks are limited in fiscal response to a downturn. The saving grace is that American companies with less exposure to Sino finance are seeing investment rise. So it may be averted. Britains problem is productivity and any deceleration in investment after Brexit will be magnified which will affect productivity even more. Its the uncertainty of BREXIT that is not helping the UK and productivity is around 3% lower than it should have been although this is partly down to planning for BREXIT. German bond yields are all negative but since 2008 that is the new normal. Of the other indicators of impending recession is the price of Gold is soaring and the price of copper is declining. There is a general worry that the West may become like Japan which has had a long period of stagflation, inflation you see is sometimes a good thing.

So as ever its the unknowns that are causing the economic worries. And as i have forgotten most of what i used to know as i am an old fucker just take it as things are not so well in the world at the moment. Its not BREXITs fault although it has an impact but if things do go tits up we may not be in the best position to cope.
Inflation is a great way to deal with an indebted society.
 
Genoese Galloway summed it up tonight. 17.5 million Brit’s have been cheated by those crying about a coup.

All that really needs to be said on it.
I thought he was a jock, not from Genoa.
Either way he’s wrong and it’s funny watching you agreeing with someone who’s so left wing that he makes Corbyn look like a Tory.
 
There are quite view of us that have been pointing out these views - even if we are not as 'left-leaning' as Rascal and yourself - it is just simple fact that all who are genuinely seeking the implementation of socialist policies should want to see the UK leave the EU

How to you explain that many of the most ardent Remain supporters on here see themselves as being 'hard-left' - are they just 'faux socialist'? are they just confused?

Kazzy makes some great points, there is an inherent contradiction between being on the left of the Labour party and being a remain supporter. I believe this contradiction arose from the EU being a bulwark against some of the ravages of Thatcherism on the working class. It gave cat treats to soothe the hurt and exploited the cats at the next turn.

You simply cannot have a Socialist government in the EU and I will be honest it took me ages to realise this because I had been taken in by the workers protections etc. I took the cat treats without thinking of the bigger picture. That is one of the reasons I was left in the peculiar position of not having a side to choose, I could not vote remain, because it was anti socialist, one thing I disagree with Kazzy about is Farage, I despise the man and I could not vote leave because of him. That's why my stance became one of reforming the EU in the hope of it becoming a Socialist Europe, pie in the sky maybe, but I can dream. I would have voted leave if it was Labour party lead, I couldn't vote leave whilst it was Tory lead as I simply do not trust them and I only see a turbo charged neo-liberalism under those clowns.

Like anything though it is never that simple, people tend to forget that many on the left are inherently small c conservative in nature, patriotic to the core and where I do think Kazzy is right is with his description of the new liberals. I am not a Liberal Socialist, I veer towards a more authoritarian stance economically for a start, and socially I am fairly liberal but not overtly liberal. Again this is one thing I do think people get confused about when labels are attached so freely, as there are varying degrees of any political standpoint from the far left to the far right and in some cases the far right and far left merge into one.
 
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