Another new Brexit thread

[bluethrunthru]

It isn’t. They aren’t.

why do Leavers want the EU to collapse? to somehow justify their position? " see we told you" mentality?

 

[mcfc1632]

May was a **** of a pm, no doubt, but its far to late to rework any deal.

No deal is better than a bad deal, long term.

Agreed

So remove the unfettered backstop - or it is better to leave with no-deal

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I spent a day stuck in Pakistan traffic three weeks ago, and there are 'Frexit' posters up everywhere. I'm not saying it's a majority view, but their is certainly a groundswell similar to ukip here 5-10 years ago, and it's not just the far right Le Pen lot either.

Hey would people in Pakistan care whether France was in the eu?

 

[journolud]

Hmmm - keep up

It was one of SKY's political correspondents - Goodhall I think is name is.

You think his name is Goodhall. Sounds like you are as certain of that as anyone is about anything to do with Brexit. What was it he thought might happen again?

 

[Len Rum]

No - she really could not

She might have thought it - but she really could not say it

Why not?
I thought as a minimum her role was to question and advise.
We're told she can't go against what the PM recommends.
Whatabout 'in extremis' when she knows she is being lied to?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Perhaps that - I meant though just that it was delicious to hear the distraught tone of that supercilious twat

I know what you meant. I rather like him though. Does that make me a bad person I wonder?

 

[west didsblue]

I spent a day stuck in Pakistan traffic three weeks ago, and there are 'Frexit' posters up everywhere. I'm not saying it's a majority view, but their is certainly a groundswell similar to ukip here 5-10 years ago, and it's not just the far right Le Pen lot either.

Were you in a rickshaw?

 

[mcfc1632]

Why is Germany on the brink of recession then with France not far behind ?

We have an excuse of Brexit uncertainty what is their excuse they are insulated by economic trade winds aren’t they being in the Eu ?

​

You may be right, but do you realise you are just like a remain version of Farage with your tall tales of the 'sunny uplands' of post brexit EU. If you can bear to look at any objective analysis of the EU, it's a financial timebomb and the UK leaving (or remaining) does very little to change this.

Inconvenient truths can be - well - just so inconvenient

 

[hilts]

If we end up with no-deal and there are resultant serious issues - you can be sure that the Remainers generally will not blame the right people

Corbyn has been playing politics throughout and other arch-Remainers have simply been acting to see the decision overturned. Perhaps they should have been acting with integrity and seeking to secure an agreed deal?

We are where we are because of remainers and the Eu, throw in a bit of political self interest from Jezza, krankie and the inability of a small minority of the Irish to grow up. Whatever happens will still be argued over.

Personally I think it’s an opportunity, will that opportunity be taken? Very doubtful. But that’s our choice.

 

[west didsblue]

We are where we are because of remainers and the Eu, throw in a bit of political self interest from Jezza, krankie and the inability of a small minority of the Irish to grow up. Whatever happens will still be argued over.

Personally I think it’s an opportunity, will that opportunity be taken? Very doubtful. But that’s our choice.

Haha brilliant.
We're in this really shit position because of everyone except those that voted for it and those that were tasked to negotiate our exit.

 

[George Hannah]

Faux Outrage 'R Us

 

[mcfc1632]

I think many people (in life not just on here) style themselves as "liberals" or (what the yanks call) "progressives" and think that makes them left wing.

They are the people that I think of as "leafy suburban socialists". Or "Nimby socialists" ie: I like talking about how much I care about people that are struggling and am happy to talk about what I would like to do for them but if you dare suggest turning off the tap of unlimited, cheap labour I shall scream and scream until I am sick.

That said, I know from life, there are loads of people who DO genuinely care and absolutely are truly on the left of the political spectrum who also happen to favour remain. I think they are badly wrong but I don't doubt their sincerity. I don't know rascal from adam for example, but I don't doubt the sincerity of his views. Or many others on this thread. I still think they're wrong .

It's the professional politicians I reserve my ire for. Corbyn, Yvette cooper, chuka umuna et Al . All hypocrites and liars. I hate farage but I believe that politically he is far more honest than the 3 i mentioned.
I wouldn't (just couldn't) vote for him but he's far more honest than many modern day politicians. Whatever side of the spectrum you're on, if you want brexit you owe him a debt of thanks for without him we wouldnt have had the chance .

I'm also a pessimist these days. I'm still of the belief that Boris is doing this hoping to be stopped so he can turn around and said "I tried but those damn remainers ganged up against us" and that way he could potentially win a GE AND get (what I think is his true wish) to keep us in the EU.

It's turned is all into cynics the last few years. And with good reason .

Really well said

 

[hilts]

Haha brilliant.
We're in this really shit position because of everyone except those that voted for it and those that were tasked to negotiate it.

Theresa May was a remainer, we got the vote because of a remainer, people voted to leave because of the EU and remainers, the process has turned a little bit silly because of remainers. We have been governed by remainers and the EU for as long as I can remember.

If enough people were happy with what they had it wouldn’t have happened. Shame the remainers and the EU didn’t think of that. They have only had decades to let it sink in.

 

[Saddleworth2]

No - she really could not

She might have thought it - but she really could not say it

I used to really like Ruth. A true Unionist and good person. Unfortunately she took on an impossible role and it has done for her career wise. The writing was on the wall when the timing of her starting a family was known. Good luck to her for her future. Her answers about the PM were honest but classically political. Of course she asked him if he was seriously trying for a deal and of course he said yes.

What was he supposed to say, ‘No Ruth, I’m going to fuck everyone over and take us out on a No deal’.

It means unionism is pretty much dead politically in Scotland as it has lost its one capable leader. Sad but inevitable given the schism between the Scottish party and the mainstream.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Hey would people in Pakistan care whether France was in the eu?

Lol. Fucking auto correct! Parisian you ****

 

[Bluemanc100]

Is it? Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Who is is contemplating departure?

EU approval has gone up across the continent since we have voted to leave.

The French, the Dutch were recently... there will be some watching with interest to see what happens to us

I have no evidence....

 

[Saddleworth2]

I think many people (in life not just on here) style themselves as "liberals" or (what the yanks call) "progressives" and think that makes them left wing.

They are the people that I think of as "leafy suburban socialists". Or "Nimby socialists" ie: I like talking about how much I care about people that are struggling and am happy to talk about what I would like to do for them but if you dare suggest turning off the tap of unlimited, cheap labour I shall scream and scream until I am sick.

That said, I know from life, there are loads of people who DO genuinely care and absolutely are truly on the left of the political spectrum who also happen to favour remain. I think they are badly wrong but I don't doubt their sincerity. I don't know rascal from adam for example, but I don't doubt the sincerity of his views. Or many others on this thread. I still think they're wrong .

It's the professional politicians I reserve my ire for. Corbyn, Yvette cooper, chuka umuna et Al . All hypocrites and liars. I hate farage but I believe that politically he is far more honest than the 3 i mentioned.
I wouldn't (just couldn't) vote for him but he's far more honest than many modern day politicians. Whatever side of the spectrum you're on, if you want brexit you owe him a debt of thanks for without him we wouldnt have had the chance .

I'm also a pessimist these days. I'm still of the belief that Boris is doing this hoping to be stopped so he can turn around and said "I tried but those damn remainers ganged up against us" and that way he could potentially win a GE AND get (what I think is his true wish) to keep us in the EU.

It's turned is all into cynics the last few years. And with good reason .

Why do you think remainers are ‘badly wrong’ mate? Apologies if you have already covered this. Just point me at the post if I have missed it.

 

[Bluemanc100]

It isn’t. They aren’t.

That's me told

 

[mcfc1632]

Kazzy makes some great points, there is an inherent contradiction between being on the left of the Labour party and being a remain supporter. I believe this contradiction arose from the EU being a bulwark against some of the ravages of Thatcherism on the working class. It gave cat treats to soothe the hurt and exploited the cats at the next turn.

You simply cannot have a Socialist government in the EU and I will be honest it took me ages to realise this because I had been taken in by the workers protections etc. I took the cat treats without thinking of the bigger picture. That is one of the reasons I was left in the peculiar position of not having a side to choose, I could not vote remain, because it was anti socialist, one thing I disagree with Kazzy about is Farage, I despise the man and I could not vote leave because of him. That's why my stance became one of reforming the EU in the hope of it becoming a Socialist Europe, pie in the sky maybe, but I can dream. I would have voted leave if it was Labour party lead, I couldn't vote leave whilst it was Tory lead as I simply do not trust them and I only see a turbo charged neo-liberalism under those clowns.

Like anything though it is never that simple, people tend to forget that many on the left are inherently small c conservative in nature, patriotic to the core and where I do think Kazzy is right is with his description of the new liberals. I am not a Liberal Socialist, I veer towards a more authoritarian stance economically for a start, and socially I am fairly liberal but not overtly liberal. Again this is one thing I do think people get confused about when labels are attached so freely, as there are varying degrees of any political standpoint from the far left to the far right and in some cases the far right and far left merge into one.

So I think that means that Kassy, you and myself all agree that from our POVs - if you really aspire to a Socialist UK - leaving the EU is the correct course of action

 

[journolud]

Theresa May was a remainer, we got the vote because of a remainer, people voted to leave because of the EU and remainers, the process has turned a little bit silly because of remainers. We have been governed by remainers and the EU for as long as I can remember.

If enough people were happy with what they had it wouldn’t have happened. Shame the remainers and the EU didn’t think of that. They have only had decades to let it sink in.

People voted to leave because some people wanted to remain? Excellent.