Another new Brexit thread

[Len Rum]

That seems strange. Suggests we could be kept in the EU indefinitely. surely not?

Err not if there was a time limit on the further extension or (less likely) open ended until we decided to leave.

 

[Len Rum]

they can't - it's not legal

Fair enough George if that's the case.
If you could give details of the legal basis for your statement I would be most grateful.
Looking forward to your reply in keen anticipation.

 

[mcfc1632]

I don't have a problem with any of that. As you say you have stated this numerous times and I did understand the first time.
We do see things from a different perspective and I suppose my substantive argument is and always has been the order in which this whole process has unravelled.
The Brexit campaign in Britain has always seemed to be opportunistic at best and full of jingoism. It didn't really address the practicalities of your existing arrangements with us and the North. The same could be said of the Remain side I'm sure but their maintain the status quo attitude did not require any alterations to our existing agreement.

Regardless of where I may think your actual problems lie, whether I agree that they stem from the EU or not, has little or no bearing on anything.
My view is you are where you are, you voted to leave. You should, but you have created a mess at every turn. I'm saying 'YOU' because I don't differentiate between remain or Brexit. It's your government. They are responsible for the mess. They will create a further mess, as they really don't care what protocols or what prior agreements they have to trample on to further their own personal gain. Their own personal gain even within their own parties at the expense of other colleagues/party members.
The referendum was ill conceived right at the start. That is not to say you don't have the right to wish to leave the EU.

You won't agree with this bit, but with this background to the last three years I really don't know how the EU can be expected to negotiate with this mess.
However diplomacy must win in the end, so lets see if some statesman steps forward.

Thank you for that - and something else I have said many times - and something which we can agree on.

May and her team have demonstrated utter incompetence

I actually believe Leavers have a lot more cause to be pissed off than Remainers

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I'd be interested to hear who the small minority of Irish are.

And what in particular they need to grow up about

 

[BobKowalski]

Presumably he is doing what he thinks is best for the country, in the belief that is lawful and in full accordance with parliamentary process. In the highly unlikely event the courts find otherwise he will have to face the consequences but this hysterical and utterly hypocritical squealing from Remainers who have repeatedly displayed their utter contempt for precedent and the electorate is just laughable.

Really so why is he lying about the reasons for prorogation? If it’s in the best interests of the country and all that.

 

[George Hannah]

Fair enough George if that's the case. If you could give details of the legal basis for your statement I would be most grateful.
Looking forward to your reply in keen anticipation.

We leave the EU on the 31st October, the EU cannot change that date unilaterally, it can only be changed through UK legislation. It's that simple.

 

[Vic]

they can't - it's not legal

It's perfectly legal to offer an extension. "We" don't have to agree to it - but who is "we"? A PM with no majority - or our sovereign Parliament? It saves Parliament voting to have an extension without knowing if the EU would say yes. Cute.

 

[Vic]

We leave the EU on the 31st October, the EU cannot change that date unilaterally, it can only be changed through UK legislation. It's that simple.

It doesn't need legislation. The last two extensions didn't. It's that simple.

 

[Vic]

Really so why is he lying about the reasons for prorogation? If it’s in the best interests of the country and all that.

Because he's a liar?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Who do you think I am google?

Touchy!
Just wondered how impartial the advisers were that's all.
I don't know the full who's who of British politics but I did Google this from Wkipedia;
Thus, the British Privy Council, as a whole, ceased to be a body of important confidential advisers to the sovereign; the role passed to a committee of the Council, now known as the Cabinet.
The cabinet is the prime Minister and his select 22. Surely the privy council advising on whether Boris can pull this stunt or not are not, well, Boris and his mates.
Tell me I have that wrong, please.

 

[Vic]

Thank you for that - and something else I have said many times - and something eihuchvwe can agree on.

May and her team have demonstrated utter incompetence

I actually believe Leavers have a lot more cause to be pissed off than Remainers

You've said that almost as often as I've mentioned the deal we were promised. Except I'm talking about fact not opinion.

 

[George Hannah]

It's perfectly legal to offer an extension. "We" don't have to agree to it - but who is "we"? A PM with no majority - or our sovereign Parliament? It saves Parliament voting to have an extension without knowing if the EU would say yes. Cute.

Wrong again, he said the EU would withdraw their extension deadline and change it to a later date. That's not in their power.
Brexit occurs, deal or no deal, on 31 October unless we legislate otherwise.

 

[Vic]

Touchy!
Just wondered how impartial the advisers were that's all.
I don't know the full who's who of British politics but I did Google this from Wkipedia;
Thus, the British Privy Council, as a whole, ceased to be a body of important confidential advisers to the sovereign; the role passed to a committee of the Council, now known as the Cabinet.
The cabinet is the prime Minister and his select 22. Surely the privy council advising on whether Boris can pull this stunt or not are not, well, Boris and his mates.
Tell me I have that wrong, please.

Bang on. Rees Mogg emphasised that's the only Advice (capital A) that the Queen can take (even if he has no majority). He sent just three ministers to Balmoral - it seems not even all the cabinet knew.

 

[Len Rum]

We leave the EU on the 31st October, the EU cannot change that date unilaterally, it can only be changed through UK legislation. It's that simple.

Ah George let me save you the trouble of replying to my earlier post.
I did in fact say that the EU would OFFER the extension.
Obviously they cannot impose it.
Nevertheless thank you taking the time to read my posts.

 

[blueparrot]

Wrong again, he said the EU would withdraw their extension deadline and change it to a later date. That's not in their power.
Brexit occurs, deal or no deal, on 31 October unless we legislate otherwise.

Both sides need to agree, if the EU offer it, it makes parliament accepting it that much easier.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

And what in particular they need to grow up about

I'd simply like to know who the minority are that he feels back up his argument on his list of those wanting to hold up Brexit. I suspect it was a throw away remark, but am interested to know who these people are.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I'd simply like to know who the minority are that he feels back up his argument on his list of those wanting to hold up Brexit. I suspect it was a throw away remark, but am interested to know who these people are.

Maybe it was the 'ra? Can we somehow let them know they need to grow up?

 

[mcfc1632]

Barbel like it too. Or is it Luncheon meat. Are they the same?

I use luncheon meat - think they are the same thing?

 

[BobKowalski]

Maybe it was the 'ra? Can we somehow let them know they need to grow up?

You’re on your own with that one mate

 

[George Hannah]

It doesn't need legislation. The last two extensions didn't. It's that simple.

Complete rubbish.
How can “exit day” be changed?
“Exit day” is defined in primary legislation. Changing it would therefore normally require further primary legislation. However the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 specifically contemplated the possibility of an extension being sought and granted, and allows exit day’s definition to be changed in those circumstances by secondary legislation.
Section 20(4) allows a Minister of the Crown to change exit day provided that a draft statutory instrument has been laid before and approved by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. However, it can only be used:
“to ensure that the day and time specified in the definition are the day and time that the Treaties are to cease to apply to the United Kingdom.”
In practice this means that an extension must first have been agreed to at EU level before any such regulations can be made to change the date. As the Government itself said in a written statement on Friday 15 March:
“It is expected that the EU will use the March European Council on the 21 and 22 March 2019 to consider and reach a decision on a request from the UK to extend the Article 50 period.
As soon as possible following agreement at the EU level we will bring forward the necessary legislation to amend the definition of exit day in domestic legislation. This statutory instrument will be laid, before it is made, under section 20(4) of the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018.
This legislation is subject to the draft affirmative procedure and so would need to be actively approved in each House. The legislation would give effect to any agreement with the EU on an extension, so would not be laid before Parliament until that agreement had been reached.”
https://commonslibrary.parliament.u...onceptions-about-the-extension-of-article-50/