Another new Brexit thread

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But just not desperate more generally apathetic or slightly concerned. Maybe they are bothered enough to alter the deal a little? As you’re in the know maybe you can tell us. Although you do seem desperate to make out their hand is much stronger than ours.

Yeah I think your bias prevents me from taking your views seriously, sorry.

Your bias prevents you from taking facts seriously. The fact that Germany only export a fraction to us, compared with what we export to the EU (and France and everyone else even less) is not "bias" its a fact and one rather lost on you. As is the fact that the % of GDP the EU has at risk, compared to us.

Also lost on you is the fact that I said the EU might compromise and that they do want a deal. Your bias is so strong, you've lost the ability to even read, let alone think.
 
I just looked at the € from October 2015 before all this rubbish started. It was 1.40 - imagine your business was importing (say) furniture from Italy to sell in the UK. How the fuck are they expected to cop with the £ now at 1.09? That’s some drop - this is a real issue for UK business and UK importers
 
Personally I would prefer he do the right thing but clearly I’m a bit picky.
You need to get with the narrative. He’s got a Baldrick style cunning plan that might just work but only if no-one criticises it. If anyone questions it, it will be their fault when it goes wrong.
 
This is what you were answering;

Those SNPs want Scotland out of the UK and in the EU but out of the Euro - they want to use Sterling lol
I await them saying no need for a hard border either.

When you made the remark;
George Hannah said:
Guaranteed - we should abandon our own economic and political interest and stay in the EU solely for the benefit of an independent Scotland and the convenience of 27 other countries, especially the Irish and the Germans.

NI are not looking to leave the UK and are your citizens currently and as alluded to above, will need a hard border, which will be a problem concerning prior arrangements you have agreed to, which isn't the same as Scotland.

I understand a lot of the frivolity and flippancy of some of the remarks made on both sides of this coin, but there's a reoccurring theme here when it comes to ignoring the citizens of the North.
Not by me friend, especially given my roots! I was referring to the inhabitants of the Irish Republic and was only speculating about our Caledonian cousins. The need for a border if they vote for separation and join the Euro after we'd left, would be inescapable, as it is in Ireland. In both cases, given time, mutual respect, goodwill and co-operation, the different economic arrangements can surely be accommodated without prejudice to either party.
 
I have been expecting to be challenged on my prediction that if an Indyref happens 3 years or more after the UK leave the EU then Scotland will vote no - probably by an increased majority

Perhaps some of the Remainers are starting to think things through?
I think you’re right and I’ve also always maintained that Scotland would gain independence before NI would vote for a 32 county Ireland.
 
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Now that I have answered at length on the reasons why many on the left did not vote leave, I wondered if any of you on the right who voted leave can explain to me how being anti freedom of movement fits with free market principles or if you are more of a libertarian leaver how do you square that off with abolishing freedoms. Why would the pro-capitalist right want to leave a pro-capitalist club, it seems strange to me and wondered if anyone can answer it?

It is one of the strange contradictions of Brexit that many on the left support a pro-capitalist union whilst many on the right are against a pro-capitalist union.

No soundbites or mindless rhetoric, be honest how you balance that contradiction.
Just wondering who on here can answer that

I could not possibly be viewed as 'on the right' - must be someone though
 
Oh - it was just that

The Spanish government are considering denying ex pats access to their health service

Blatant scare mongering imo - but saying so causes righteous indignation it seems
We have access to their health service, my wife has used it, a good friend has recently come out of a hospital
after an urgent gall bladder operation, the service, to digress, is absolutely first class.
These facilities were accessed by the production of a passport and the EHIC card.
This system, as far as I'm aware, will continue, it was there prior to our joining the EU.
So more scaremongering bullshit.
It never ends.
 
Never said they did. Look at the whole here and the stupidity of the situation. I’ve said this before if we started from scratch no one would think the current set up of the EU or U.K. was anything but stupidity. It literally makes no sense whatsoever. The whole thing needs a reset. You can’t get that or even have a discussion about it if people play silly little games. The EU, brexit and the GFA are being used as weapons on all sides for self interested reasons.

If we are to believe that most don’t want a no deal that would only leave one option, revoke. Why are a majority of MPs who are remainers themselves just not revoking it? The only deal that has come forward is frankly not a deal at all. So after 3 years we are in the same position.

If you join a union then you should go with what the majority of that union wants. But everyone Including ourselves want to take the piss. Forget the past and as a country decide and make the best of it. If your individual opinion is in the minority that’s just too bad.

All this devolution and countries arsing about by being in or partly in the EU or in the U.K. was always going to cause problems. I don’t even agree with veto’s nor do I agree with the EU tip toeing towards federalism because they haven’t got the balls to ask it’s citizens.

Define your borders, give everyone a say(no fptp thank you very much) and stand by your decisions.
Hilts don’t take this as anything other than amicable debate.
Your answer above wanders all over the place in relation to what our original discussion was about.
Not that I disagree with the sentiment you seem to be conveying, but I’ll state my case as simply as I can.

Your initial argument sited several vested interests including a minority Irish lunatic fringe trying to dictate to the UK’s right to self determination as far as the EU membership is concerned.
I asked who this minority are and I think we do both agree that the DUP are definitely in the lunatic category.
I also offered Sinn Fein’s stance on the matter.

The problem with this supporting your argument is that both of these for totally contradictory reasons are happy to see a no deal Brexit.
Quite the opposite of your argument.

The DUP never supported the GFA in the first place and see Brexit as pure opportunism to undermine it as they see this as strengthening their place in the Union.
Quite perversely, Sinn Fein would gladly ignore the economic disaster for the North that Brexit would bring, quite aside from any other problems, because they think it would bring them closer to a poll on s United Ireland, which incidentally they would be disappointed by.

I’m not having a go. I’m just sick of the amount of thrash that is spouted in here.

I don’t really care what you say about each other, remainer v Brexiteers. It’s sad and would be comical if it weren’t for the fact it is quite serious and you will have to live together whatever happens.
Triumphalism won’t get you anywhere.
Have any of you paid any attention to the North for guidance on that.
The total certainty of both viewpoints is something I don’t have.
I don’t know what the outcome will be but there is nothing we can do about it over here. Believe me. We’ll get on with it either way.
The majority on this island looked to the future and will continue to do so. I have to have confidence in that.

I get fed up when total misinformation regarding Ireland though is used in this mudslinging matches that go on.

If Ireland is used for point scoring amongst yourselves, I will continue to highlight inaccuracies.
 
Just wondering who on here can answer that

I could not possibly be viewed as 'on the right' - must be someone though

To be honest I don't really expect an answer. There is a paucity of right wing thinkers , there are right wingers of course, but overall on the right I consider there to be a lack of philosophical insight. When you consider somebody as vacuous as Roger Scrutton is seen as an eminent right wing intellectual then I am afraid it is barrel scraping. One of the biggest problems I see on the right is it has become almost wholly reactionary.
 
We have access to their health service, my wife has used it, a good friend has recently come out of a hospital
after an urgent gall bladder operation, the service, to digress, is absolutely first class.
These facilities were accessed by the production of a passport and the EHIC card.
This system, as far as I'm aware, will continue, it was there prior to our joining the EU.
So more scaremongering bullshit.
It never ends.

Loving the ‘as far as I’m aware’. From legal protection under EU law to ‘fingers crossed it will be alright on the night’. Mind you Sweden seems to taking a different approach.

‘The current situation for Brits in Sweden is this: after October 31st 2020 you will need to qualify for another form of residency - just like any other immigrant. No allowance made for the fact that you came here as an EU citizen. People are being abandoned’ @theLocalEurope
 
We have access to their health service, my wife has used it, a good friend has recently come out of a hospital
after an urgent gall bladder operation, the service, to digress, is absolutely first class.
These facilities were accessed by the production of a passport and the EHIC card.
This system, as far as I'm aware, will continue, it was there prior to our joining the EU.
So more scaremongering bullshit.
It never ends.
Hate to break the news to you, the EHIC scheme only started in 2004 and only covers countries in the EEA. Absolutely no guarantees that the 30+ countries in the EEA will continue this arrangement with the UK without some sort of agreement. That’s fact not scaremongering.
 
Loving the ‘as far as I’m aware’. From legal protection under EU law to ‘fingers crossed it will be alright on the night’. Mind you Sweden seems to taking a different approach.

‘The current situation for Brits in Sweden is this: after October 31st 2020 you will need to qualify for another form of residency - just like any other immigrant. No allowance made for the fact that you came here as an EU citizen. People are being abandoned’ @theLocalEurope
There has been agreement to continue with reciprocal health care, so yes, it will be alright on the night.
As I go there a lot I'm lovin' it too. You have then moved on to immigrants, ie; permanent, settled status.
You have to apply for this in Spain, in Sweden, Britain, in fact anywhere on earth really, so if I want to apply to settle
in Espana, or Vikingland, I do what everybody has always done, and apply for it.
 
There has been agreement to continue with reciprocal health care, so yes, it will be alright on the night.
As I go there a lot I'm lovin' it too. You have then moved on to immigrants, ie; permanent, settled status.
You have to apply for this in Spain, in Sweden, Britain, in fact anywhere on earth really, so if I want to apply to settle
in Espana, or Vikingland, I do what everybody has always done, and apply for it.

Yeah but people are being abandoned........
 
Hate to break the news to you, the EHIC scheme only started in 2004 and only covers countries in the EEA. Absolutely no guarantees that the 30+ countries in the EEA will continue this arrangement with the UK without some sort of agreement. That’s fact not scaremongering.
No news broken, I've already said, there is a reciprocal agreement.
When we access services in Spain, those costs are reimbursed by the NHS, as I'm sure you know.
 
No - you are clinging to a single claim made in a campaign in a David and Goliath environment - your repitition means no more than a Leaver pointing out that Cameron and Osborne were clear about Leaving meant exiting the SM and CU

We get it - you prefer to take comfort from somethings said getting in for 4 years

Some of us prefer to look forward
Well, not to wishing to repeat stuff, but the Leave promise / lie was specifically to rebut the idea that we'd have to renegotiate everything. And two months ago Gove said he couldn't support No Deal because of that very promise / lie. Shame that didn't last. But then like all the Tory leadership liars he was against proroguing Parliament.
 
There has been agreement to continue with reciprocal health care, so yes, it will be alright on the night.
As I go there a lot I'm lovin' it too. You have then moved on to immigrants, ie; permanent, settled status.
You have to apply for this in Spain, in Sweden, Britain, in fact anywhere on earth really, so if I want to apply to settle
in Espana, or Vikingland, I do what everybody has always done, and apply for it.
“– Should there be a failure to agree a withdrawal agreement by March 2019, access to reciprocal healthcare arrangements for UK citizens and residents within the EU, and EU citizens and residents within the UK, would end. This would lead to significant disruption to those individuals’ healthcare arrangements, an increase in costs of insurance, and uncertainty regarding accessing healthcare abroad. Moreover, the NHS would face a drastic increase in demand for services, which could dramatically increase its costs and place greater pressure on doctors and clinical staff.”
https://www.bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/collective voice/influence/europe/bma-brexit-briefing-reciprocal-healthcare.pdf?la=en
Are the BMA paid up members of Project Fear?
This is worth a read as well.
https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5300
I’m sure it’ll all be fine though.
 
We have access to their health service, my wife has used it, a good friend has recently come out of a hospital
after an urgent gall bladder operation, the service, to digress, is absolutely first class.
These facilities were accessed by the production of a passport and the EHIC card.
This system, as far as I'm aware, will continue, it was there prior to our joining the EU.
So more scaremongering bullshit.
It never ends.
"As far as I'm aware"
Could you be a little more specific?
Will the EHIC card still be valid?
 
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