gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
Final stage of what?
I admire you're optomism, but this party's going to rumble on for years, whatever does or doesn't happen on Halloween.
Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
- Start date
- Status
I admire you're optomism, but this party's going to rumble on for years, whatever does or doesn't happen on Halloween.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
Im happy to revoke so long as we also revoke our parliament, the way we vote in this country and we totally reset the whole fucking thing.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
It's not going to make the debate on our relationship with Europe disappear though, is it?
That will now dominate our politics for the next generation whether we leave or stay. Maybe it was inevitable, but the referendum, and the way it was constructed, made it absolutely unavoidable.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Probably. (That said, countries are realising that an EU without the UK in it, is a big opportunity for them to win business currently going to the UK.)
But anyway, as I've repeated, I am no supporter of Boris, but I can fully understand his frustration. If the EU know we will not leave without a deal, and they have every incentive to stick to the position that their shitty deal is the only one on offer. Because our only options are then to either not leave; or accept the shitty deal. Both are good results for the EU. So why on earth would they improve the terms? There is actually a dissincentive for them to do so, since doing that would drive a worse outcome for them: Either us leaving (bad) or staying on inferior terms from the EUs perspective (bad).
Only the threat of no deal, provides any negotiating leverage at all. And that rug is being pulled from under Boris' feet.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
Which is why i have said from day one the only way to silence the debate was to leave, as per the result and then rejoin.
Leavers have been satisfied, the result respected and ultimately remain get their way.
Anything else and we have some really pissed off people but something just has to give and it might even boil down to who will take to the fucking streets less in protest.
Honestly we have been so badly let down by 650 MP's, the party political system and some terrible leadership on all sides of the house its untrue.
I genuinely fear for any election in this country from now on as whoever loses wont accept fuck all anymore.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
It's hard to argue with anything you've posted, save for the ease at which you suggest it was possible to leave after the vote imo. Without any defined mechanism there was always going to be too much wriggle-room for it to be remotely straightforward.
A truly sorry episode in our nation's history and an equally damaging one.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
It was possible if the partys that promised to respect and carry out the result had done just that instead of fractioning and playing party politics with brexit.
A united parliament would have been met by a totally different approach from the EU imo but from day one, they have looked at us and said they are divided, many have made it clear they want it stopped and many have said they wont accept no deal so lets play hard ball, offer nothing and hope they revoke.
Its been an utter disaster from a negotiating stance.
Rascal
El Presidente
Much maligned - at least he knew which side he was on
Why are you insistent on making it about sides, that is ridiculous, you know I didn't vote remain so I have no side, nobody should as it is about the good of the nation. I really despair at this divisive nonsense and I explained why I think it has become so divisive. We are not at war, nobody is a traitor, people have expressed opinions and are using democracy to influence the outcome of the opinions expressed.
Honestly George, if Brexit is making you think this way, you are becoming a Blimp, an English nationalist and I think you are putting your opinions before the nation you purport to love.
Churchlawtonblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 17 May 2009
- Messages
- 16,617
There's a surprise. Lol. Why bother agreeing to more meetings then? Very strange.......
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
If only we had the likes of Mike Ashley negotiating we'd be in the midst of the sunny uplands right now, having both:
(i) taken back control and;
(ii) got on with it.
Metal Biker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 22,624
- Team supported
- Manchester City (and McLaren F1)
Denial, then.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
I deny everything and admit nothing, Sheriff.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
So as to avoid the blame game.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
They won't avoid the blame game though, will they?
Fucking comical the way the likes of Gove have tried to point the finger of blame at the EU. Fucking dishonest cunts.
Rascal
El Presidente
You really do not know how our democracy works do you. We do not elect a party, we never have elected a party. We elect MPs who represent us in Parliament. They may run for office on a party manifesto but are entirely free to choose who to support once elected, it is a free and fair election. It is why MPs are allowed to cross the floor and join other parties once elected. The PM is the person who has the support of the majority of Parliamentarians and that does not matter which party they come from as parties are notional political groupings not exclusive political sects. The recent coalition government is an example of how it works, where the PM had to have the support of parliamentarians from across disparate parties, just as now Johnson is only PM because there is a majority of Parliamentarians that are in his favour. That is why a vote of no confidence affects a PM not a party. We are a Parliamentary democracy, not a party democracy. Just recently when MPs from across Parliament set up ChangeUK there were howls of indignation from people who do not understand that they are elected as free MPs not as Party lackies and the calls for by-elections showed how little people understood how our democracy works.
This stuff should really be taught in schools,
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
That might be the theory, but it isn't the reality, I'm afraid.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
Honestly Rascal, which universe are you inhabiting? Brexit may not be a shooting war, but that there are sides and treachery is blindingly obvious. It is those who have set themselves above the decision of the electorate who have made it so. I am proud to be British and of our history and of our culture and of our record as a civilizing influence in the world - things that many on here despise and ignorantly dispute. If you have the good of the UK at heart maybe you should leave the Blimp labels out of your posts and reflect on the liberty you now enjoy as a consequence of the sacrifice of those who you smear with such stereotypes.
blueparrot
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 7 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 33,466
Not in usual times, but we are entering unusual times.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
None of that addresses the point of the post you are replying to. In addition, you do really need to learn that as far as Brexit is concerned, Parliament's decision to hold and follow the result of a referendum renders your exposition of traditional representative democracy redundant.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
That will be true up to a point, but there will still be plenty thinking of their party over their constituents - both ways
- Status