Another new Brexit thread

[Pingu the Penguin]

Not at this stage. Best scenario for the EU is the UK exiting with a deal, second best is no deal.

I'm not sure 1 is the best deal for them. UK remaining in the EU is, certainly in the short term. My idea delivers that?

 

[BobKowalski]

Admiral Ackbar reveals the names sworn to fight for the Rebel Alliance. Unconfirmed reports says it is now 9 Tories as Beto has climbed aboard his X wing fighter.

‘8 Tory MPs have confirmed they will rebel and lose the whip > Gauke, Stewart, Greening, Burt, Harrington, Sandbach, Grieve, Letwin
Undecided: Lidington, Vaizey, Brine
Unconfirmed: Hammond x2, Clark, Clarke, Bebb, Soames, Lee, Gyimah, Milton’

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/full-list-rebel-tory-mps-brexit

 

[aguero93:20]

I'm not sure 1 is the best deal for them. UK remaining in the EU is, certainly in the short term. My idea delivers that?

Nope. Too disruptive and the UK voted to leave, they should leave.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Even now, after all that’s happened over the last three years, I am regularly horrified by the utter lack of understanding of even the basics of the EU, Brexit and simple economics, usually from those who shout the loudest.

I suppose it’s just like football, and I’ve commented many times about how politics has turned into football.

If it helps (tho you appear to have made your mind up) I was (and hopefully will be) a Remain voter. I'm trying to be pragmatic in terms of getting out of a mess that no-one really understands how to get out of. The EU could help with making the concession I suggest. If they don't want to then, whilst I can understand that in a way, it would seem strange not to given the undoubted disturbance that Brexit would cause all parties?

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

How is an "exit" of potentially a matter of weeks more disruptive than a no deal Brexit? And it provides certainty!

 

[Fordyboy46]

You have seen the people who are doing this scaremongering?

Yes, pure speculation on their behalf. We'll all die because food won't get here and medicines as well, ha ha ha. I'm no Boris fan, but he's slightly better than Corbyn, what a shit choice of the next leader if it comes to that.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

If it helps (tho you appear to have made your mind up) I was (and hopefully will be) a Remain voter. I'm trying to be pragmatic in terms of getting out of a mess that no-one really understands how to get out of. The EU could help with making the concession I suggest. If they don't want to then, whilst I can understand that in a way, it would seem strange not to given the undoubted disturbance that Brexit would cause all parties?

It’s not a viable solution, mate. It’s not like leaving and rejoining the gym. The last 3 years should have told you that.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Yes, we'll aware it cuts both ways, but all the more reason to be careful about crying nazi.

I’m not ‘crying Nazi’.

If we leave with no-deal, tariffs will be imposed, things will be more expensive, people will lose jobs, farming will go and the currency will be even weaker - ‘we’ will then look for someone to blame and look for a ‘strong man’ to agree with ‘us’ that someone is to blame and something needs to be done. Let’s call this man Figel Narage, what sort of political ideology do you think this next leader will have? I’ll give you a clue, it won’t be ‘sorry folks, we sold you a pup’

The long and short is the economic climate that no-deal will create will be fertile ground for the sort of leader, we’d rather not see

 

[bluethrunthru]

Yes, pure speculation on their behalf. We'll all die because food won't get here and medicines as well, ha ha ha. I'm no Boris fan, but he's slightly better than Corbyn, what a shit choice of the next leader if it comes to that.

So the CBI, CSM, SMMT, IMF, the governments own reports ffs are all wrong ? I am soooo looking forward to you moaning on here when the effects of no deal bite - it will be a good laugh.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Nope. Too disruptive and the UK voted to leave, they should leave.

It’s not a viable solution, mate. It’s not like leaving and rejoining the gym. The last 3 years should have told you that.

Well exactly my point - it is very much NOT like leaving and rejoining a gym. All sides will hurt if we crash out - my idea makes it less likely.

 

[meltonblue]

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/ivan-rogers-the-realities-of-a-no-deal-brexit/

Agree with a lot in that blog.

 

[Blue Hefner]

But the EU wouldn't do that, would they? Presumably they want us to stay and an offer of a fast tracked return post GE (might only take weeks - IF the party wining the election was pro-EU membership) would be the best way out of the current impasse for all concerned?

Major EU talking heads have reiterrated their support to the British people and I'm sure they'd do this. If they wouldn't guarantee return on same terms post early GE that would be a massive u turn for them and would undoubtedly guarantee just one result.

But we would still be out for those few weeks and the damage will be done, tariffs would be imposed, the currency devalued further etc

You are also assuming that any of our major parties have the balls to tell the electorate that being a member is better than not being. Labour certainly won’t, they would continue to fudge the issue

 

[George Hannah]

Good grief.

I caught that segment. I can also confirm what you've stated as being correct, for what it's worth.

the closing sequence

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Actually I see we can have a GE2019 as early as 10 October if Boris decides he wants one after Parly has its say over the next few days so crashing out may not be needed in any event. A single issue GE now seems to me to be the only option left. And whichever way it goes we all have to fall in line

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

But we would still be out for those few weeks and the damage will be done, tariffs would be imposed, the currency devalued further etc

You are also assuming that any of our major parties have the balls to tell the electorate that being a member is better than not being. Labour certainly won’t, they would continue to fudge the issue

Yes agreed. A GE would flush this out though. The Lib Dems are clear what they want, at least. The people can then decide with the benefit of the past 3 years behind them

 

[Ban-jani]

So the CBI, CSM, SMMT, IMF, the governments own reports ffs are all wrong ? I am soooo looking forward to you moaning on here when the effects of no deal bite - it will be a good laugh.

Since 2016 I’ve always maintained that I didn’t want any of those who voted for Brexit to suffer the consequences, just as I didn’t want remain voters to either.

Reading some of the scoffing at no deal warnings and the obnoxiousness towards those leading in our industries and in government, who are making the warnings and are saying they’re very serious, makes me think that those who are adamant on pushing no deal and dismiss the information presented to them actually deserve it.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Actually I see we can have a GE2019 as early as 10 October if Boris decides he wants one after Parly has its say over the next few days so crashing out may not be needed in any event. A single issue GE now seems to me to be the only option left. And whichever way it goes we all have to fall in line

You may be right and would effectively become both the GE and 2nd referendum that remainers want.

 

[George Hannah]

Even now, after all that’s happened over the last three years, I am regularly horrified by the utter lack of understanding of even the basics of the EU, Brexit and simple economics, usually from those who shout the loudest.

I suppose it’s just like football, and I’ve commented many times about how politics has turned into football.

and we all know how much you know about football eh?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Actually I see we can have a GE2019 as early as 10 October if Boris decides he wants one after Parly has its say over the next few days so crashing out may not be needed in any event. A single issue GE now seems to me to be the only option left. And whichever way it goes we all have to fall in line

whichever way it went that would not be the end - the rift has been opened and will take some closing. Lets say Remain come out on top. Do you think Leave will fall in line?

 

[Ban-jani]

Yes agreed. A GE would flush this out though. The Lib Dems are clear what they want, at least. The people can then decide with the benefit of the past 3 years behind them

Lib Dem have to campaign on revoke. They need to break clear of Labour as the remain option and this could well do it.

If they return a parliamentary majority, as is the political backbone of our country being a parliamentary democracy, with revoke as their main policy then that is a mandate to take forward and stop Brexit immediately.