Another new Brexit thread

[Blue Hefner]

Well we might get to see on Oct 31st, everything is up in the air re this no deal scenario, it needs sorting asap and all parties need to come together and stop the back biting.

No, sorry. You said it was ‘scaremongering’, I took the time and effort to explain one of the many reasons why it is not and the impact a no-deal will have on businesses and industry due to the tariffs

Do you accept that the tariffs what will be imposed will be an extra cost to businesses and do you expect that when businesses incur large and unnecessary costs they either a) go to the wall and/or b) lay people off?

So when people say a no-deal will cost jobs(in all likelihood) it’s true, not Project Fear or ‘scaremongering’

 

[Vic]

That is why I have always referred to these as the EU's acolytes

Here they are drafting legislation which intentionally seeks to harm the UK's negotiating position - under the direction of/working with the party that the UK are negotiating with

I can't find the offending clause but give over with the "intentionally seeks to harm" our negotiating position. We don't actually seem to have a negotiating position - it seems to be emerging that there is no grand plan.

This is about Parliament taking back control. The clause (if KHW has reported it correctly) is just saying that if Parliament wants an extension and the EU says yes, you can't have a majority-less PM stopping it. The alternative to that clause would be putting your trust in Boris Johnson and you don't have to be an EU acolyte to think that's not wise.

 

[mcfc1632]

I have read it, what power does our pm have in these negotiations - he does what the president of the eu tells him, unless the House of Commons tells him

We are a laughing stock. How on earth does this provision assist in any way with the pm negotiating a good deal with the eu, something seemingly we all want but when it comes to it the truth is many don’t.

It completely undermines the position of the prime minister and his ability to negotiate any deal,

Funny how the eu seem happy to work through the president but the uk doesn’t anymore.

It is designed to paralyse/hamstring the PM and undermine the UK in negotiations

Curious that we hear of the EU preparing to offer an extension - almost like they are working with the Remainers?

 

[Vic]

No it does not. If you think that, then you haven't been paying attention.

If relative normality means avoiding the damage of a no-deal Brexit, the political fallout will be relatively mild. It's all relative.

 

[mcfc1632]

Could The plot to take no deal off the table is a plan conjured up with the eu by remainers to stay in. Play it out

Parliament is successful in taking no deal off the table

Eu says we are not changing the withdrawal Agreement

Parliament votes down again the only deal on offer

What is left other than to revoke as there is nothing left that can be done.

Remain check mate.

That is why I have been calling them acolytes for 3 years

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

But it has to be agreed by Parliament otherwise we don’t accept it? It does makes the PM a bit of a messenger boy though passing notes between Brussels and Parliament.

It disturbs me that anyone is so brainwashed that they don't see this.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Perhaps a padded cell?






TKNGBCKCNTRL

Taking back control

SSTDLNHSTRY

BRXTMNSBRXT

Brexit means brexit
NDLSBTTRTHNBDDL

No deal is better than a bad deal

FRTRDZNFRMCLNDTTHRSSNBRDR

Free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border
THYNDSMRTHNWNDTHM

They need us more than we need them

BLLXTBRXT

Bollox to brexit

That is brilliant mate!

Got them all

 

[Ban-jani]

I honestly think there's about a rizla width between them. The fact that remain has never had the confidence to just say yes - these things might be better if we leave, but on balance the EU is ok, is at least part of the problem.

Well that’s a very inaccurate assessment. What have remain lied about? I could be here all night and day giving you leave lies.

Off the top of my head Osbourne over exaggerated what a vote to leave would do to the economy. The economy has still be damaged and the pound fucked, but it didn’t drop as quickly as he said.

Other than that we’re struggling.

 

[Chippy_boy]

There’s been some ridiculously wrong posts on this thread but I reckon this could be right up there.

Congratulations on not having a clue about anything.

The Corbyn being right wing comment was particularly amusing!

 

[Ban-jani]

The Corbyn being right wing comment was particularly amusing!

It’s no wonder the country is absolutely fucked.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Well that’s a very inaccurate assessment. What have remain lied about? I could be here all night and day giving you leave lies.

Off the top of my head Osbourne over exaggerated what a vote to leave would do to the economy. The economy has still be damaged and the pound fucked, but it didn’t drop as quickly as he said.

Other than that we’re struggling.

They are lying right now all of them saying they want to stop us leaving with no deal but are actually just trying to stop us leaving

They lie every time they utter the words

Of course I respect the referendum result but

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Well that’s a very inaccurate assessment. What have remain lied about? I could be here all night and day giving you leave lies.

Off the top of my head Osbourne over exaggerated what a vote to leave would do to the economy. The economy has still be damaged and the pound fucked, but it didn’t drop as quickly as he said.

Other than that we’re struggling.

Its not just the exaggerations, it's the desperation to cling on to any social or economic bad news and directly ascribe it to Brexit. Some of the 'because of brexit' stuff has been laughable - particularly in the context of having not left.

 

[Ban-jani]

They are lying right now all of them saying they want to stop us leaving with no deal but are actually just trying to stop us leaving

They lie every time they utter the words

Of course I respect the referendum result but

I want us to stop Johnson leaving with no deal as it will destroy us economically and socially, if we’re not destroyed socially already.

I would take leaving with a deal and many of those who are trying to stop Johnson have voted for Brexit one way or another.

 

[M18CTID]

Well that’s a very inaccurate assessment. What have remain lied about? I could be here all night and day giving you leave lies.

Off the top of my head Osbourne over exaggerated what a vote to leave would do to the economy. The economy has still be damaged and the pound fucked, but it didn’t drop as quickly as he said.

Other than that we’re struggling.

Let's have it right here - there was bollocks spouted on both sides and the respective campaigns were fucking shite. As for Osborne, well he also said there would be an emergency budget if there was a vote to leave and income tax would go up by 2p. He came out with that line about a week before the referendum which has since proven to be a blatant scaremongering tactic because the last time I looked, I'm still paying the same rate of income tax as I was immediately prior to June 23rd 2016.

You're right about the pound but anyone with half a brain cell could've predicted that one. Even that bellend Farage admitted that would happen if there was a vote to leave. The stock market has held up well though so far, and my pension fund rocketed by over 10% in the weeks following the vote. The FTSE 100 tanked on the morning of June 24th 2016 but that was it, and it started it's recovery later that same day.

 

[Rascal]

Of course I respect the referendum result but

I don't respect the referendum result because it was inherently flawed and extremely poor politics but I think we should leave.

How do you square that?

 

[M18CTID]

I want us to stop Johnson leaving with no deal as it will destroy us economically and socially, if we’re not destroyed socially already.

I would take leaving with a deal and many of those who are trying to stop Johnson have voted for Brexit one way or another.

The only deal that was on the table has been voted down 3 times in parliament. I could be wrong of course but I don't believe Johnson himself wants us out without a deal, and my feeling is that he's using it as a negotiating tactic to try and get a better deal than the one we already had.

 

[Chippy_boy]

No, sorry. You said it was ‘scaremongering’, I took the time and effort to explain one of the many reasons why it is not and the impact a no-deal will have on businesses and industry due to the tariffs

Do you accept that the tariffs what will be imposed will be an extra cost to businesses and do you expect that when businesses incur large and unnecessary costs they either a) go to the wall and/or b) lay people off?

So when people say a no-deal will cost jobs(in all likelihood) it’s true, not Project Fear or ‘scaremongering’

Playing devil's advocate here for a moment mate...

It's true that on November 1st with no deal, the EU will be obliged to apply tariffs on imports from the UK. But whilst there's a few exceptions, most tariffs are circa 10% or less.

However, the pound is already more than 20% down compared to the pre-referendum rates and would doubtless drop further if it became clear we're leaving with no deal. So the upshot is that even with tariffs applied, most UK exported goods would still be much cheaper than they were a few years ago. Exceptions like dairy could be given special subsidies, which we'd be free to do outside the EU.

And regards import tariffs on goods coming in, we don't have to apply them, at least not immediately. In the long term, unilaterally dropping your tariffs to zero, would make negotiating new trade deals more difficult, but even then not impossible. Instead of bartering with an offer to drop tariffs, we'd sit at the table with the threat to levy them if no deal is done.

For me the biggest fear is that inward investment into the UK from foreign businesses would be severely curtailed, and the ones already here would imo decamp in large numbers. It's not the tariffs per se, it's the supply chain "friction" and added administration costs and delays. I'm sure that would cost many, many jobs.

 

[Ban-jani]

Its not just the exaggerations, it's the desperation to cling on to any social or economic bad news and directly ascribe it to Brexit. Some of the 'because of brexit' stuff has been laughable - particularly in the context of having not left.

But the evidence is there to suggest we’ll be worse off with a deal and absolutely fucked without one.

This isn’t just remain, this is what the government actually think and even Gove said no deal should be avoided several months ago.

The economy has gone from being one of the fastest in Europe to one of the slowest. Things aren’t going well or as well as they were prior to 2016.

The pound is at record lows as well.

I’m all for leaving with a deal, if we can then negotiate a free trade deal then great. What many of us won’t stand for is something that was never mentioned in 2016 and that’s no deal.

 

[Ban-jani]

The only deal that was on the table has been voted down 3 times in parliament. I could be wrong of course but I don't believe Johnson himself wants us out without a deal, and my feeling is that he's using it as a negotiating tactic to try and get a better deal than the one we already had.

Of course he is, he won’t want to be blamed for the impacts of no deal as it’ll be pretty grim.

I’m not saying we should leave with May’s deal, I think we should have another referendum before we go with no deal though.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

But the evidence is there to suggest we’ll be worse off with a deal and absolutely fucked without one.

This isn’t just remain, this is what the government actually think and even Gove said no deal should be avoided several months ago.

The economy has gone from being one of the fastest in Europe to one of the slowest. Things aren’t going well or as well as they were prior to 2016.

The pound is at record lows as well.

I’m all for leaving with a deal, if we can then negotiate a free trade deal then great. What many of us won’t stand for is something that was never mentioned in 2016 and that’s no deal.

I'm not denying any of that, just saying that some of these legit and actually pretty compelling reasons to remain have been watered down by all the hysterical exaggerations.