Another new Brexit thread

[HelloCity]

To be fair, I’d hope even the most hardened Brexit supporter on here would agree that no deal would be bloody awful for everyone.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Really...…?

And this in a post where you are commenting on someone lying

consult a graph over say the last two weeks - Johnson flaps his lips and down the pound goes - I know you don't want it to and don't want to believe it but its tanking

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/11975-pound-to-euro-and-dollar-no-deal-outlawed

 

[lancs blue]

Your contempt for the UK often shines through

Do you blame him? Perhaps if the UK had gone into the EU from the start with a positive attitude intent on making our membership work to maximise the benefits instead of fannying around with caveats, opt-outs and "ooh those nasty French and Germans..." we may have ended up being able to wield real influence. FFS we are the 2nd largest economy in the bloc but have too often been content to sit whining on the sidelines when it comes to major policy decisions.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Nov 2008 - a £ gets you $1.54
today a £ gets you $1.19 - lowest since 1985

 

[bluethrunthru]

Do you blame him? Perhaps if the UK had gone into the EU from the start with a positive attitude intent on making our membership work to maximise the benefits instead of fannying around with caveats, opt-outs and "ooh those nasty French and Germans..." we may have ended up being able to wield real influence. FFS we are the 2nd largest economy in the bloc but have too often been content to sit whining on the sidelines when it comes to major policy decisions.

Opt outs were treated as victories when what was happening was the EU were happy for us to marginalise our influence on important decisions - in true Dunkirk Spirit we turned defeats into victories in our own minds

 

[Blue Hefner]

Nov 2008 - a £ gets you $1.54
today a £ gets you $1.19 - lowest since 1985

I'm just about to sell $21'000 worth into £. the difference between now and January is about £2k. Whilst that is a lot to my business, it is peanuts to the big players who have millions - if people think this is all about 'taking back control' they are wrong, it's about the readies

 

[Rascal]

Do you blame him? Perhaps if the UK had gone into the EU from the start with a positive attitude intent on making our membership work to maximise the benefits instead of fannying around with caveats, opt-outs and "ooh those nasty French and Germans..." we may have ended up being able to wield real influence. FFS we are the 2nd largest economy in the bloc but have too often been content to sit whining on the sidelines when it comes to major policy decisions.

There is truth in that, English exceptionalism though made it difficult to accept we could be in any shape or form subservient to an outside law making body. We never bought into the shared sovereignty idea, we insisted on having our own, which was at odds with the EU project.

We could have dominated the EU but instead sat on the fence pulling faces at the French and blowing raspberries to the Germans. It is quite possible that Fintan O'Toole is right when he says because during WW2 we were never invaded we never quite saw the need for co-operation to avoid a future catastrophe and we did indeed revel in the fact we stood alone.

 

[robbieh]

Watched a documentary on Roger Eiles the former CEO of Fox News. A truly despicable human.
Unfortunately a lot of people both in the US and here believe these types.

 

[George Hannah]

There is truth in that, English exceptionalism though made it difficult to accept we could be in any shape or form subservient to an outside law making body. We never bought into the shared sovereignty idea, we insisted on having our own, which was at odds with the EU project.

We could have dominated the EU but instead sat on the fence pulling faces at the French and blowing raspberries to the Germans. It is quite possible that Fintan O'Toole is right when he says because during WW2 we were never invaded we never quite saw the need for co-operation to avoid a future catastrophe and we did indeed revel in the fact we stood alone.

Unlike the rest of Europe out last experience of beng conquered was more than 1000 years ago, we are exceptional.

 

[M18CTID]

I don’t disagree with any of that, the best situation would have been for May to get a better deal, for us to leave with it and then move on.

I think both sides would have accepted a deal with the EU and a free trade agreement.

Obviously this has passed now so my thoughts are that I’ll go along with whatever happens as long as it isn’t no deal.

I just think the damage will be too great.

As much as I don't want No Deal, while there's a possibility we could still be heading that way I've recently wondered if we might've been better crashing out without a deal back on June 24th 2016 rather than crashing out without a deal at the end of October. It would've been chaos for sure but we'd now be 3 years+ further on in the process as opposed to still being stuck in limbo and not knowing which way this is all going to spin.

My gut feeling at the moment is that this time next year we'll still be in and not much further forward than we are now

 

[bluethrunthru]

We could have dominated the EU but instead sat on the fence pulling faces at the French and blowing raspberries to the Germans. It is quite possible that Fintan O'Toole is right when he says because during WW2 we were never invaded we never quite saw the need for co-operation to avoid a future catastrophe and we did indeed revel in the fact we stood alone.

Another myth we choose to believe - if we stood alone were all those soldiers, sailors and airmen from France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, the Commonwealth and the USA who fought with the UK and gave their lives in conflict not there then? All those war memorials to their fallen erected by mistake? Its the dangerous " are British/English and we won two world wars " merchants that are a blight on the true value of the achievements of a collective.

 

[M18CTID]

I see we're back to the referendum being declared illegal.
You've got to laugh.

If that's the case then it makes you wonder why the government didn't simply declare it null and void. After all, it would've saved all the shenanigans of the last 3 years or so

 

[Rascal]

Unlike the rest of Europe out last experience of beng conquered was more than 1000 years ago, we are exceptional.

And there you have it, English exceptionalism.

Although over the last 1000 years other countries like Sweden would argue different.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

Another myth we choose to believe - if we stood alone were all those soldiers, sailors and airmen from France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, the Commonwealth and the USA who fought with the UK and gave their lives in conflict not there then? All those war memorials to their fallen erected by mistake? Its the dangerous " are British/English and we won two world wars " merchants that are a blight on the true value of the achievements of a collective.

Especially as it was the Soviet army and people that won the war for us.

Uncle Joe says you're welcome by the way

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Another myth we choose to believe - if we stood alone were all those soldiers, sailors and airmen from France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, the Commonwealth and the USA who fought with the UK and gave their lives in conflict not there then? All those war memorials to their fallen erected by mistake? Its the dangerous " are British/English and we won two world wars " merchants that are a blight on the true value of the achievements of a collective.

I've never come across anyone who thinks this. Why are you suggesting this is even a myth?

 

[aguero93:20]

With that comment - I will just conclude that you simply must not (or don't want to) understand matters

I don't think you understand the process of getting a treaty through both houses and into law.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

My grandfather was one of those mentioned in the opening paragraph. Not even a soldier - just a boilermaker working at Harland & Wolf. My dad's only memory was sitting on his coffin sailing home to Dukinfield.

An Irish Freedom Fighter at Harland and Wolff? Cant have been too many of them? I'm not doubting you, just not something you hear often

 

[bluethrunthru]

I've never come across anyone who thinks this. Why are you suggesting this is even a myth?

Really - you haven't heard the countless people say this in interviews ( most born post 1945 I must say ) - you haven't seen reference to it in here? Rascal was even quoting Finton O'Toole espousing that very theory that we are like we are because "we stood alone". And that quote was from only a few posts back
https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-second-world-war-argument-leave-geoffrey-boycott-8972521
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ry-leadership-elections-romford-a8991441.html
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Eur...-s-history-How-the-myth-of-WWII-shaped-Brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-war-the-politicians-comparing-brexit-to-wwii

Just a few examples of others saying it that have passed you by - including JRM and Johnson

 

[George Hannah]

And there you have it, English exceptionalism.
Although over the last 1000 years other countries like Sweden would argue different.

Great Britain is truly exceptional in many historic respects and one is not cowering in front of bullies - just remind me who was travelling on Swedish railways during WW2, or who supplied the iron for the Ruhr armaments factories.

 

[George Hannah]

An Irish Freedom Fighter at Harland and Wolff? Cant have been too many of them? I'm not doubting you, just not something you hear often

He was an innocent bystander - not all the casualties were combatants.