Just watching this on Ch4 catch up - the Remainers are just getting slaughtered by Redwood and Phillips - zero intellectual integrity or indeed coherence from Blackwood & Lewis or the plants in the audience yelling about water supplies, tax havens, imperialism .. The host is as usual a blatant propagandist for extreme left.
The reference to Britain standing alone comes from the moment that we were the only European nation left (at war) that had not been invaded by axis forces (except for the Channel Islands). It doesn't mean we claim to have won the war ourselves which is what you wrote and have suggested is a myth.Really - you haven't heard the countless people say this in interviews ( most born post 1945 I must say ) - you haven't seen reference to it in here? Rascal was even quoting Finton O'Toole espousing that very theory that we are like we are because "we stood alone". And that quote was from only a few posts back
https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-second-world-war-argument-leave-geoffrey-boycott-8972521
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ry-leadership-elections-romford-a8991441.html
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Eur...-s-history-How-the-myth-of-WWII-shaped-Brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-war-the-politicians-comparing-brexit-to-wwii
Just a few examples of others saying it that have passed you by - including JRM and Johnson
Yeah, I think it's brinkmanship on his part. It's risky because the clock is ticking towards October 31st and he's insisted we're leaving then with or without a deal, so yet another extension seems to be out of the window.
What would be the options on the ballot paper for you if there were another referendum? Would it be a straightforward in or out as before, or various other options such as out with no deal and out with a deal?
To be honest, I can't see a way out of this at the moment. The country is completely split over this issue but I do think many people on both sides are sick of hearing about it and just want a situation where we can all move on. Another referendum would cause serious ructions. And it's not as black and white as Leavers v Remainers either. My boss at work is a pretty staunch Remainer and still wishes the vote had gone a different way but is now at the stage where he wants us out as soon as possible so we all know where we stand, even if it were without a deal. I voted to leave but I'm probably less receptive to no deal than he is. Not that he wants no deal as such, but just wants an end to it all.
Grieve looking happy and ready to extract his next rabbit - Bercow's gang are not going to allow the government to seek a dissolution in the event their coup succeeds..democracy in action preventing a General Election
Leaving with no deal doesn’t end anything. It’s the start of endless negotiations with the EU. All you do by leaving with no deal is end the legal cover (transition) under which we were due to start..endless negotiations with the EU.
I get the attraction of it all being over but it will never be over. This is what we voted for.
*cough*The reference to Britain standing alone comes from the moment that we were the only European nation left (at war) that had not been invaded by axis forces (except for the Channel Islands). It doesn't mean we claim to have won the war ourselves which is what you wrote and have suggested is a myth.
In doing so a defeated executive cannot call an election and becomes the puppet of the Speaker. He has unconstitutionally and undemocratically allowed the order for parliamentary business to be hijacked by a coalition of wreckers.You mean we don’t get a GE because it doesn’t meet the threshold under the terms of the Fixed Term Act? Do we no longer want MPs and the Executive to adhere to the law?
No, Cameron's government and the Labour opposition both agreed to abide by the referendum outcome in 2016, both their manifestos in 2017 repeated and reinforced that commitment and Article 50 is an EU treaty setting the day of our exit on 31 October, deal or no deal, voted for by 498 to 114. Not semantics just the plain truth - you lost but that doesn't matter it seems.
?*cough*
Great Britain is truly exceptional in many historic respects and one is not cowering in front of bullies - just remind me who was travelling on Swedish railways during WW2, or who supplied the iron for the Ruhr armaments factories.
Yes, I'm fully aware of that. My point was that we need an end to the current limbo - be it with a deal or the more unpalatable no deal. Then we can all move on to the next step.
How does it move us onto the next step? It's the same step. Negotiating a deal, but from a weaker position.Yes, I'm fully aware of that. My point was that we need an end to the current limbo - be it with a deal or the more unpalatable no deal. Then we can all move on to the next step.
He's probably one of the best and most intelligent proponents of remain out there. If he could only direct his efforts into winning converts rather than just arguments he'd be truly great. Sadly his frustration with the stupidity of anyone who doesn't agree with him colours his approach and negates his impact. The tragedy of this is he then ends up like Farage, just preaching to the hardcore.You know what really pisses me off;
That James O’Brien still has brexiters phoning in with the ‘take our sovereignty back’ mularkey. Of course in the space of four questions O’Brien makes them look vacuous. Tony was the latest this morning. EU was a cancer imposing laws on us. What laws? Hand towels and car emissions was the only ones he could list although not in any detail. Oh, and dissolving the Army. I know not every brexiter is stupid, but jeez why cant just one with some intelligent rationale phone in?
The current situation is unsustainable but it is being sustained because the alternatives have been deemed unacceptable. The WA is considered by both Remain and Leave as unacceptable and a no deal exit simply hands whatever leverage we have left back to the EU. Johnson seems to be gambling on the EU granting a raft of mini deals to keep the country running. All these mini deals will be in the gift of the EU, time limited and come at a price.
A no deal exit is simply an admission of defeat.
Great Britain is truly exceptional in many historic respects and one is not cowering in front of bullies - just remind me who was travelling on Swedish railways during WW2, or who supplied the iron for the Ruhr armaments factories.
Another myth we choose to believe - if we stood alone were all those soldiers, sailors and airmen from France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, the Commonwealth and the USA who fought with the UK and gave their lives in conflict not there then? All those war memorials to their fallen erected by mistake? Its the dangerous " are British/English and we won two world wars " merchants that are a blight on the true value of the achievements of a collective.
Putting your passion to one side and thinking objectively and calmly....Indeed.
I'm not for divide and conquer.
For as much as I'll want to remain we are now beyond the point of no return.
Just make sure we get some sort of a deal.
In doing so a defeated executive cannot call an election and becomes the puppet of the Speaker. He has unconstitutionally and undemocratically allowed the order for parliamentary business to be hijacked by a coalition of wreckers.