Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

I agree that leaving with a deal is probably the best course now. But you asked what Labour’s excuse was and I provided one which I think is there position

Apologies, I wasn't aware that's the point that you were answering.

 

[Ban-jani]

So the logic follows that the EU should have offered a deal that had any chance of getting through - rather that the utterly shit deal that they did engineer

That they are not making movement shows that they do jot actually want a deal - they want us either Remaining or locked in backstop limbo land

It follows that they are not to be so 'trusted' as BobK was naively saying yesterday

Funny you’ve changed your opinion on this. Not long ago you said you didn’t blame the EU for negotiating to the best of their abilities to get the best deal for them and their members.

 

[BobKowalski]

Plus even with no deal, Johnson is creating a rod for his own back by denying the HOC time to pass the necessary legislation required, which will literally take weeks. Without that legislation there will be utter legal chaos internally in the UK on the 1st of November.

Yep. And in this Parliament it will take longer than weeks. Brexiteers wont like elements of the WA Implementation bill, Remainers ditto. Same with the Trade Bill, the Immigration bill all are going to get a kicking from one faction or the other. Nothing meaningful is getting through this Parliament.

 

[George Hannah]

If we pass the WA then A50 will be extended to allow time for it be properly ratified and implemented on both sides.

The ratification is not automatic. The WA has to be approved by member states under QMV and pass the European Parliament. As Barnier has acted within his mandate and their is consensus on the EU side this is likely to be straightforward.

The WA passing the house is ratifying the agreement but it does not implement the WA. That is done through the WA Impementation bill which along with the Trade Bill, Immigraton bill and a raft of other legislation replaces or converts EU law into U.K. law and allows us to set tariffs etc. Absent this legislation exiting becomes a legal, regulatory and security nightmare which is why you have the warnings against absenting without a deal.

The Govts no deal solution is to rely on the goodwill of the EU and our neighbours to help us out of this mess with temporary interim arrangements which will come at a price and are unsustainable in the long run. We are creating this ‘goodwill’ by threatening them with chaos. Go figure.

My understanding is the current deal is signed off by both the EU and the UK and if agreed its ratification is automatic, similarly the associated bills you mention. I don't know why you are suggesting it isn't. There is a process triggered by agreement. Obviously no deal means the absence of these and their replacement by other transitional arrangements, many already in place. We're told everybody wants a deal so with goodwill etc that should be possible - except we know it isn't because the EU is set to give the UK a punishment beating as an example to other states contemplating a future outside their intended superstate.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I just wonder what sort of shit existence life would be if I didn't have Mrs Ewing, my bikes and City! Not necessarily in that order!

 

[west didsblue]

I agree that leaving with a deal is probably the best course now. But you asked what Labour’s excuse was and I provided one which I think is there position

As the spelling and grammar police are in evidence, I feel I should point out that your penultimate word should have been "their" not "there".

 

[mcfc1632]

It’s more you won’t see movement from the EU until something different that is credible is proposed to them.

If you choose to not understand /missed the points - either deliberately or not that is up to you

I see no ambiguity at all in the clear requirement for the backstop to he removed

It has been made clear - that whilst May's WA is a shit deal for many reasons - removal of the poisonous backstop is the absolute minimum

Not rocket science

 

[Ban-jani]

Brussels apparently baffled about Johnson’s insistence that talks are progressing.

They’ve said nothing concrete has been put to them yet.

 

[joe123]

Brussels apparently baffled about Johnson’s insistence that talks are progressing.

They’ve said nothing concrete has been put to them yet.

quelle surprise!

 

[Blue Hefner]

As the spelling and grammar police are in evidence, I feel I should point out that your penultimate word should have been "their" not "there".

Blame it on the Moretti.....

 

[mcfc1632]

consult a graph over say the last two weeks - Johnson flaps his lips and down the pound goes - I know you don't want it to and don't want to believe it but its tanking

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/11975-pound-to-euro-and-dollar-no-deal-outlawed

You are simply talking shit in your desperation

I was in a euro zone country during July and August - many posters on here will have been

We will have all seen that the pound has fluctuated between 1.07 and 1.11 - where it is today

You do realise that in your post that I replied to you claimed he causes it to lose 1% a day

And - crazily - I think that you were claiming that Remainers do not scare monger

 

[west didsblue]

If you choose to not understand /missed the points - either deliberately or not that is up to you

I see no ambiguity at all in the clear requirement for the backstop to he removed

It has been made clear - that whilst May's WA is a shit deal for many reasons - removal of the poisonous backstop is the absolute minimum

Not rocket science

Correct.

It needs to be replaced by a large fence with customs checkpoints or imaginary alternative arrangements.

No problem there.

 

[BobKowalski]

My understanding is the current deal is signed off by both the EU and the UK and if agreed its ratification is automatic, similarly the associated bills you mention. I don't know why you are suggesting it isn't there is a process triggered by agreement. Obviously no deal means the absence of these and their replacement by other transitional arrangements, many already in place. We're told everybody wants a deal so with goodwill etc that should be possible - except we know it isn't because the EU is set to give the UK a punishment beating as an example to other states contemplating a future outside their intended superstate.

Ratification is the process in which the House consents to the WA by voting for it. Similar for the EU (QMV and EU Parliament).

But for the U.K. that is the start of the legislative process that follows ratification. If you recall when we embarked on these negotiations it was a given that we would have to conclude them at least six months prior to exit date at the end of the two year A50 period so that we could pass the necessary legislation like the WA Implementation Bill as well as Trade and Immigration bills. These would be debated, discussed and voted on. None of this is automatic. You can’t reset your trade, immigration and security policies overnight with no scrutiny, oversight or debate.

This is why Johnson is being dishonest in saying he wants a deal yet won’t extend in any circumstances. Getting a deal and getting it through Parliament necessitates that an extension is needed for the legislative process and if he is sincere about no extension then he is lying about wanting a deal.

If we leave with no deal there is no transition to provide legal cover and no obligation on the part of the EU or the E27 to help us out unless it’s in their interests or on their terms. All side mini deals will be temporary and unsustainable long term. At some point we have to cut a permanent deal with the EU. This about the realities of power and leverage. It’s a harsh world and all that.

 

[mcfc1632]

Do you blame him? Perhaps if the UK had gone into the EU from the start with a positive attitude intent on making our membership work to maximise the benefits instead of fannying around with caveats, opt-outs and "ooh those nasty French and Germans..." we may have ended up being able to wield real influence. FFS we are the 2nd largest economy in the bloc but have too often been content to sit whining on the sidelines when it comes to major policy decisions.

Blame him?

That would not describe my view

I just have little time for witnessing the self-indulgence of someone/anyone that chooses to display their inherent and obvious contempt for the UK in the manner he does

 

[George Hannah]

I think George is confusing the Garden of Remembrance with The Irish National War Memorial at Islandbridge.

I didn't know about the Garden of Remembrance until the Queen laying a wreath at it was mentioned in the Guardian article @Rascal posted. It seems to be dedicated to the memory of "all those who gave their lives in the cause of Irish Freedom." My grandfather was a civilian killed in those hostilities so the other place you mention is not appropriate. If the Garden just commemorates the freedom fighters and not the innocent lives lost as a result of the uprisings, then they should reconsider. Many other war memorials are dedicated to all the casualties of conflict.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Blame him?

That would not describe my view

I just have little time for the witnessing the self-indulgence of someone/anyone that chooses to display their inherent and obvious contempt for the UK in the manner he does

I feel contempt for the UK, and I'm a citizen.

It's because of people like Farage, Francois and you.

 

[yerwot?]

Brexit has not "split the country", its picked the scab off a wound that has steadily deepened since 1979. After 18yrs of thatcherism the country was fucked, the press became the de facto opposition . The tory party have not regrouped, just get by like a couple stuck in limbo that neither can afford to leave. The labour party are no closer to unity than when blair left, their traditional support dying as industry disappears. With no voice, the party will fade away. Anyone but them twats is the watchword for both sides . So how low do we go? Best case for brexits is the worst case for remainers, with a self-imposed time limit to add panic to the party, like a lion pride stampeding the herd....No happy ending for anyone it looks like

 

[west didsblue]

Blame him?

That would not describe my view

I just have little time for the witnessing the self-indulgence of someone/anyone that chooses to display their inherent and obvious contempt for the UK in the manner he does

Are you describing Johnson or is it Farage?

 

[mcfc1632]

Nov 2008 - a £ gets you $1.54
today a £ gets you $1.19 - lowest since 1985

So - you claiming that to be Johnson:s fault?

You are really accelerating your digging

 

[west didsblue]

So - you claiming that to be Johnson:s fault?

You are really accelerating your digging

No it's your fault for voting for this shit.