Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

I don’t have a problem with that. The public hasn’t been asked whether leaving with no deal is better than staying in. If it votes in a government whose manifesto is ‘deal or no deal, we leave on 31 October’ then so be it. I think it’s fucking bonkers and will do all I can to avoid it, but a democratic (and no, the last one wasn’t) vote where the public makes a clear choice about membership is something that we haven’t had, and one way or another it should go some way to healing this rift.

Good post

Yep - let's have a GE on that basis - and then get this finished either way

After the past 2 years Labour would surely not back down would they?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

He has a point though - denying Johnson a GE would be a masterstroke - people forget through his long life in politics Corbyn has been around committee's, votes, machinations and so on - he will understand strategy and knows how to play a game and a long game. Cummings may have tried to lay a trap and may well have walked into one set by Corbyn instead.

It would be interesting to see what Labour do if a bill is proposed:
"That a GE be held on 14 October".

It's apparently possible to do this, avoid the Fixed Term act, and not need 2/3 MPs. Because it specifies a date, it has a better chance of getting through.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yup - it would have to be Leave without a Deal or revoke Art 50 and remain I think. Given the last 3 years we all know what the risks are around Brexit now, so no excuses for the electorate in terms of not knowing. If they have their say and vote leave again we've gotta go.

The current polling is interesting: 3 years on, with all we know, 48% remain, 43% leave, 8% undeicded. 2 weeks before the 2016 referendum the polling was 47% leave, 44% remain, 8% undecided. Remarkable really!

remarkable is one word. Terrifying is another.

 

[Saddleworth2]

2 option vote, no-deal brexit or customs union. it's not what i want, i'm strongly remain, but i think that is the only question if put to the public that would give a clear majority, in favour of customs union

Parliament is trying to rule out no deal Brexit and I think (crosses fingers) will succeed. Surely the only referendum questions that remain are 1) the WA 2) Rescind A50. I think that would get a majority one way or another. A customs union could be an outcome of further negotiation if 1) won (if it were inserted in the WA beforehand). To deny the public the chance to change their mind about Brexit after everything that has happened would be tantamount to criminal imo.

 

[Ban-jani]

He's picking out the crusty remains of the line he had in the bogs...




Point of Order.

Mate, it's "Fore". As in short for "Look out before/afore" or "look out ahead".

As in; Hey Boris! FORE!




Great bangers.

Sorry not a golfer.

 

[Saddleworth2]

What are thoughts on holding a GE and confirmatory referendum on the same day? I can see upsides to that but not many downsides. It would leave Political Parties to campaign for what they thought was right for the country but decouple a Brexit vote from a vote for a party. A Labour leave voter could then vote Leave, whilst still voting for Labour irrespective of which way Labour campaigned. Same applies to anyone left that thinks voting Tory is a good idea.

Imo the referendum choice should be 1) WA with preferred future relationship inserted 2) Rescind A50.

 

[Rascal]

Good post

Yep - let's have a GE on that basis - and then get this finished either way

After the past 2 years Labour would surely not back down would they?

If I was the Labour leader there is no way I would help facilitate a GE on Johnsons terms. Let him sink in his own hubris.

 

[Saddleworth2]

If I was the Labour leader there is no way I would help facilitate a GE on Johnsons terms. Let him sink in his own hubris.

A GE may result in another hung parliament. There is no guarantee it would move us forward one notch. Its a confirmatory referendum thats required, maybe in conjunction with a GE.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

1848 Treason felony act

3. Offences herein mentioned declared to be felonies

If any person whatsoever shall, within the United Kingdom or without, compass, imagine, invent, devise, or intend to deprive or depose our Most Gracious Lady the Queen, from the style, honour, or royal name of the imperial crown of the United Kingdom, or of any other of her Majesty’s dominions and countries, or to levy war against her Majesty, within any part of the United Kingdom, in order by force or constraint to compel her to change her measures or counsels, or in order to put any force or constraint upon or in order to intimidate or overawe both Houses or either House of Parliament, or any other of her Majesty's dominions or countries under the obeisance of her Majesty, and such compassings, imaginations, inventions, devices, or intentions, or any of them, shall express, utter, or declare, by publishing any printing or writing ... or by any overt act or deed, every person so offending shall be guilty of felony, and being convicted thereof shall be liable ... to be transported beyond the seas for the term of his or her natural life.
Penal transportation was abolished in 1868,[8] leaving life imprisonment as the maximum sentence.

Tories are known for this tho..... May lied to the Queen when she told her she had the seats and votes to establish Government .... before she'd bribed the DUP.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

What are thoughts on holding a GE and confirmatory referendum on the same day? I can see upsides to that but not many downsides. It would leave Political Parties to campaign for what they thought was right for the country but decouple a Brexit vote from a vote for a party. A Labour leave voter could then vote Leave, whilst still voting for Labour irrespective of which way Labour campaigned. Same applies to anyone left that thinks voting Tory is a good idea.

Imo the referendum choice should be 1) WA with preferred future relationship inserted 2) Rescind A50.

You could put anything on the ballot paper you want to on a second referendum remain view will win. No leaver I know is going to bother voting , why would they. Absolutely no point.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Good post

Yep - let's have a GE on that basis - and then get this finished either way

After the past 2 years Labour would surely not back down would they?

They want 'no deal' off the table first.... an election date is movable by the PM.

 

[Saddleworth2]

You could put anything on the ballot paper you want to on a second referendum remain view will win. No leaver I know is going to bother voting , why would they. Absolutely no point.

Of course there is a point. Specific questions this time, no criminality and the result would be respected by all.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Sir kier starmar on tv labour over recent months labour has been very clear that they want a second referendum.

Yeah course you have you lying slimy ****, no worse than Boris.

 

[Rascal]

A GE may result in another hung parliament. There is no guarantee it would move us forward one notch. Its a confirmatory referendum thats required, maybe in conjunction with a GE.

I am coming more to the view that a confirmatory referendum is the only answer, the thing is I am anti referendum and always have been. Power should reside in Parliament but I would accept one with a pre arranged mandatory threshold. That's why the last one was so poor, it was too vague and open to interpretation, in there arrogance Cameron and Osborne assumed they would win. Now things are different there maybe is a chance to get it right.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Of course there is a point. Specific questions this time, no criminality and the result would be respected by all.

No point. Except for me to go there and draw a giant cock and balls on the ballot paper because that is all it deserves

 

[andyhinch]

I don't think they all are pal.

Its dangerous times and if we lose all trust in politicians who knows where the fuck that may end up.

I lost all trust years ago mate, having to work for the self serving fuckers, left me hating them, sad and dangerous times.
Edit, just remembered I can call them cunts on this thread.
Cunts

 

[Rascal]

You could put anything on the ballot paper you want to on a second referendum remain view will win. No leaver I know is going to bother voting , why would they. Absolutely no point.

I don't think that's the case, I didn't vote in the last referendum, but If there was another I would vote leave to confirm the result of the first referendum.

The impasse has to be broken somehow and as Parliament is not able to break it, then we the people must.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

It is when presenting advice to the monarch for her to act upon. She has given royal assent to something based on a lie possibly.

He had his fingers crossed.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I am coming more to the view that a confirmatory referendum is the only answer, the thing is I am anti referendum and always have been. Power should reside in Parliament but I would accept one with a pre arranged mandatory threshold. That's why the last one was so poor, it was too vague and open to interpretation, in there arrogance Cameron and Osborne assumed they would win. Now things are different there maybe is a chance to get it right.

Yeah I think you are right. A specific question with campaigns run within the bounds of law would have the outcome respected by the country and would start the process of healing.

 

[Saddleworth2]

No point. Except for me to go there and draw a giant cock and balls on the ballot paper because that is all it deserves

Fair enough mate. Whatever floats your boat.