kevin horlocks wand
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Do a little poll of leavers in here
@blueinsa @Mëtal Bikër @mcfc1632
Guys if there is a second referendum would you bother voting again?
Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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Do a little poll of leavers in here
@blueinsa @Mëtal Bikër @mcfc1632
Guys if there is a second referendum would you bother voting again?
FlemishDuck
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I'm impressed for Bojo's sheer hunger for power, still getting his feet wet and already he's franticly pushing the purge button.
Those are of a lesser concern versus the unity of the EU, logicly the EU's first priority in this is to safeguard as much it's existance and structural integrity as possible, whatever negative consequences to the economy is to a fair degree offset by how much the result for the UK would dissuade other country's to leave aswell.
The prospect of a hard brexit became a possibilety for the EU the first time May's deal was rejected and regardlessthe EU made no big changes any time May came back to negotiate. Boris his madate was self declared to taking the possibillety of a no deal serious and no special move was made by the EU to alter the WA. I think it was a pipedream to think the EU would change position over such a threat.
In fact i think it's sufficiently ludricous as an idea to be fair. I think the EU had something along the lines of "ok we would take that "no deal", even though we won't nessecarily preppare for it because we estimate the actual realistic likelyhood of a no deal as actually less than 0.000001%. As in politicians in the UK are more than aware enough how much they would put a timebomb under the UK if they dared to pull that one off. Aka realisticly any threat of no-deal was only ever going to be just that, either that or the UK would self-implode and prove in extremely dramatic and oddly somewhat humerous ways why leaving the Eu in such a fashion would boild down to shooting yourself in the foot and covering the wound with an assortment of infested rat blood.
Those are of a lesser concern versus the unity of the EU, logicly the EU's first priority in this is to safeguard as much it's existance and structural integrity as possible, whatever negative consequences to the economy is to a fair degree offset by how much the result for the UK would dissuade other country's to leave aswell.
The prospect of a hard brexit became a possibilety for the EU the first time May's deal was rejected and regardlessthe EU made no big changes any time May came back to negotiate. Boris his madate was self declared to taking the possibillety of a no deal serious and no special move was made by the EU to alter the WA. I think it was a pipedream to think the EU would change position over such a threat.
In fact i think it's sufficiently ludricous as an idea to be fair. I think the EU had something along the lines of "ok we would take that "no deal", even though we won't nessecarily preppare for it because we estimate the actual realistic likelyhood of a no deal as actually less than 0.000001%. As in politicians in the UK are more than aware enough how much they would put a timebomb under the UK if they dared to pull that one off. Aka realisticly any threat of no-deal was only ever going to be just that, either that or the UK would self-implode and prove in extremely dramatic and oddly somewhat humerous ways why leaving the Eu in such a fashion would boild down to shooting yourself in the foot and covering the wound with an assortment of infested rat blood.
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I can't check the old thread but I think I suggested that ages ago. But the Referendums Act demands a much longer timescale. Though if Parliament can override the Fixed Terms Parliaments Act...
Rascal
El Presidente
So you would throw your toys out of the pram because democracy?
That would be stupidity. There would be a chance to confirm everything you have believed in and I expect leave to win easily, if you wouldn't vote again, that says to me, you never really believed in Brexit to begin with.
The offence there is a threat to depose her in order to get her to change a policy or lean on Parliament. Much as I'd like to see Johnson in jail.
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blueinsa
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Yes because leave/brexit party’s will win the GE.
Its one big mess, I’d had enough of it two years ago and purposely not read anything about it. TV and radio straight off at the hint of Brexit.
I think an election may just be the right way to go though. Im just cacking it at the thought of a Government led by Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell. They would bring this country to its knees, it was bad enough when Labour bankrupted the country last time when that twat Brown sold off the nations gold just before the price went on to hit a record high.
Read about Corbyns plans to tax inheritance on a lifetime basis, he will do anything to take money from those who have saved, invested or inherited money so he can give it away. We’re not talking just the super rich here, it concerns the hard working man and woman who have been sensible with their finances.
Brexit has been a three year disease, hopefully it’s not terminal.
I think an election may just be the right way to go though. Im just cacking it at the thought of a Government led by Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell. They would bring this country to its knees, it was bad enough when Labour bankrupted the country last time when that twat Brown sold off the nations gold just before the price went on to hit a record high.
Read about Corbyns plans to tax inheritance on a lifetime basis, he will do anything to take money from those who have saved, invested or inherited money so he can give it away. We’re not talking just the super rich here, it concerns the hard working man and woman who have been sensible with their finances.
Brexit has been a three year disease, hopefully it’s not terminal.
kevin horlocks wand
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I didn’t. I was a remainer then a leaver, just. Before the referendum I never gave a second thought to the eu.
However what I am is a believer in vote of the people should be honoured like all the MPs said it would be . If you vote for something and it’s not implemented for whatever reason then why do they expect people who already casted their vote to do so again.
I see no point at all in holding a 2nd referendum if the only options were the WA and Remain. It would be a complete sham and would be boycotted by most leavers. Rather like the 1973 NI border poll, which simply made matters worse. It would further widen the divisions in the country.
A 2nd referendum would only have a chance of bringing matters to a close if no deal, or some form of hard Brexit, is an option. And as I think No Deal might win and would be extremely damaging, I think a 2nd referendum is a very bad idea.
kevin horlocks wand
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I think they will in a general election . A general election is the only answer.
However now labour have magically come out saying they have supported a second referendum for months and seemingly control the agenda in the house I think you are more likely to be putting your x on a second referendum than in a general election.
TheRemainsOfTheDave
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It's the Pam Ayres accent, isn't it?
I think you are right, it was bad practice in the first place giving the vote to the masses. Our Politicians are supposed to be intelligent and pragmatic enough to make decisions on our behalf. Joe Public has chucked a big spanner in the works.
gordondaviesmoustache
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There are worse accents. Mansfield and Leeds - and that's about it.
Rascal
El Presidente
That is politics mate, we all vote for stuff we hope will happen and then we have "events" that cause proposed outcomes to be discarded. That is the problem with referendum, they are so pointed that any deviation is seen as betrayal rather than a response to events that would happen with a manifesto.
If I think back through history, has anything ever been what we voted for, no it has not because democracy does not work that way, it is flawed and it is incoherent and subject to events. The referendum itself was one of the most ill thought out examples of democracy we have ever seen, it was flawed from the beginning and it was only implemented in an attempt to save the Tory party, it had no forethought into what happened after because of the arrogance of those who organised the vote. Our democracy deserves better than what we got mate, we have seen how a flawed process has led to division, we need a clear process to heal that division.
Like many the EU was not an issue before the referendum, I think it was an issue to about 13% of the electorate, mostly I would argue on the extremes and they have held our nation to ransom to achieve their desires, that is flawed, they used the people to suit their ends. We were used and now we may have a chance to make things right on our terms not theres.
I would hope everyone would take democracy seriously and realise that in the event of a confirmatory referendum it has to be taken seriously, hopefully the flaw would be ironed out and those forces that operated with malign intent on the margins would be exposed for what they are. The referendum should never have been about Banks,Farage, Dyson, Miller etc it should have been about us, the people. We were failed by the government and they should pay the price for failure.
It is us though that owe the nation our participation in the democratic process, we have to show that we matter more than those malign forces.
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
I disagree with pretty much all your political views but you're bang on with this IMO. I don't think Cameron and Osborne ever entertained the idea that they might lose, and Cameron resigning in the wake of the vote was a disgraceful dereliction of duty.
Ancient Citizen
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Your far 'Far right and Nazi' assertions are getting tedious mate, I said Farage had said 'No deal is better than theThe brew was refreshing thanks. :-)
If the Nazi Nige quote was before the referendum, when & where was it made? You've clarified the whom, but I'd just like to see where no deal was given as an option by the far right Brexiteers?
You stated: "Your suggestion is that millions voted the way they did must be because they were seduced by this one recurring point."
Actually as quoted earlier, the main point that seduced the far right was as follows:
"Nigel Farage believes that Brexit would not have "got over the line" if it hadn't been for the single issue of immigration"
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/nigel-farage-discusses-george-osborne-brexit-comments-on-bbc-newsnight-1-5760680
It doesn't paint a pretty picture....
one we've got,' now, I wasn't going to be arsed proving it all over again, but to save any more Nazi accusations I'll
put up your favourite Brexit knocker, O'Brien. I'm sure you'll love his rant about it.
https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-nigel-farage-no-deal-james-obrien-andrew-marr-8913481
So it's there, as I said.
Spare me any more lefty bullshit about Nazis, one or two of the 17.4 million probably aren't.
FlemishDuck
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Direct democracy is something that needs to be consequential. With other words, either people can hold referendums at will or they can't, no such things as representative democracy calling a non-binding binding-referendum on a arbitrary whim. As to the soundness of the decission of the ellectorate, one must consider that "the public must be given the chance to learn from it's mistake's" in a perspective where the culture and tradition of direct democracy takes decades to thrive. Swiss style Direct democracy is certaintly not withought merrit and i would prefer it myself even if political apathy seems high nowadays, it must certaintly be noted that Brexit atleast has the positive of stimulating political debate in the UK and so it seems that direct democracy could prove positivly more "engaging" in the log run.
MillionMilesAway
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It would have been implemented by now though if the ERG had voted for May's deal. And if we leave with No Deal there will still be a deal eventually that's no better than the one we've been offered. There's no doubt that politicians and public figures championing Brexit have completely shifted in what they're telling the public about this. They're now arguing that any kind of deal isn't really leaving and i think that is what is holding up the process moreso than the hard-line remainers. A lot of the MPs voting to prevent No Deal Brexit are Leavers.
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