Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

They're trying to respect the result of the referendum and regardless of whether or not they support leaving, it's quite likely they will offer a form of leaving that represents a better outcome for people in this country than what the passionate Brexiteers are able to deliver. It might sound a bit weird to say they'd argue remaining is still the better option, bu i still think they're proposing a better way forward than the tories right now. Compromise and pragmatism have been seriously lacking in this debate and now someone is offering it we're being told it's "lunacy".

Which they will then vote against.

They know that their "remain at all costs" position isn't popular with moderate leave voters, and especially labour leave voters, whom they need in a GE. They don't believe in leaving, and they expect us to trust them they will have tried to get "the best deal possible"? Well nobody is falling for it, and last night people saw preciesly what Thornberry's "solution" to the brexit crisis was... and it was laughably bad.

 

[Ban-jani]

I'm actually laughing at how you're trying to justify her ridiculous repsonse to the question we've all been trying to get her to answer and last night we got a glimpse into how she actuall would deal with the situation.

Waste time, money and effort renegotiating a new arrangement with the EU that she would then not support in Parliament. "I made this new WA... nobody vote for it!"

Why spend all that time making a new deal if you don't even support it? How can we trust that she made every effort to reach the best deal possible, if she doesn't support it and instead believes remaining is better? The whole argument and position is nonsense. Just be honest with people that you wouldn't renegotiate. It'll lose her many labour leave votes in a GE, but at least she won't be lying to get into power.

It’s not a waste of money, it’s giving the public the chance to end the debate and for the country to move on.

You can laugh all you want but can you come up with a better alternative?

They will negotiate, the Labour Party are happy to leave, they now believe remaining is better but they can work with leaving and they can actually implement more socialist policies if they do.

Again, you’re getting wound up when they’re giving you a chance to vote.

 

[Metal Biker]

It’s not a waste of money, it’s giving the public the chance to end the debate and for the country to move on.

You can laugh all you want but can you come up with a better alternative?

They will negotiate, the Labour Party are happy to leave, they now believe remaining is better but they can work with leaving and they can actually implement more socialist policies if they do.

Again, you’re getting wound up when they’re giving you a chance to vote.

A vote on something she and her party doesn't even support the deal that she'd reach.

Her position is that we should remain, so her time spent getting a deal (if she'd even try) isn't something she would support the public to back, so why should we?

"I've managed to get a new deal"

Do you support it?

"No... but you can if you want I suppose"

Why would we if you yourself don't?

It's a proper Gerald Ratner's policy. She just wants power, knows her remain position isn't popular amongst the 35% of labour leavers, votes she needs to get into Government, and this is her "compromise" to the people. "Vote us into power, we'll negotiate a new deal, and then tell you all it's crap, don't vote for it but by that point we'd be in power, so who cares what you think."

 

[FlemishDuck]

Her position is that we should remain, so her time spent getting a deal (if she'd even try) isn't something she would support the public to back, so why should we?

Well based on the reactions of others i think she's actually making a calculated move as to garnering support behind her. The real question is why do you question if people can see sense in that position when multiple people express that they see sense in that position?

 

[Metal Biker]

Well based on the reactions of others i think she's actually making a calculated move as to garnering support behind her. The real question is why are you so surprised that people can see sense in that position when multiple people express that they see sense in that position? It's simply "situational" no?

Erm, yes, that's the point i'm making.

She's trying to con people, specifically the 35% of labour voters who voted to leave and still want to leave, into voting Labour into power as "the best party to deliver a deal to leave the EU", when in reality they don't. Once in power it'll be "thanks labour leave voters for helping us get into power, now fuck your brexit, fuck your deal"

It's not just "situational", it's manipulative, and nobody (on the leave side of things) is falling for it, but at least we finally, after months and months of trying to get an answer out of Thornberry, we have an answer, and it's laughably ridiculous.

 

[FlemishDuck]

She's trying to con people, specifically the 35% of labour voters who voted to leave and still want to leave, into voting Labour into power as "the best party to deliver a deal to leave the EU", when in reality they don't.

It's a proper Gerald Ratner's policy. She just wants power, knows her remain position isn't popular amongst the 35% of labour leavers, votes she needs to get into Government, and this is her "compromise" to the people. "Vote us into power, we'll negotiate a new deal, and then tell you all it's crap, don't vote for it but by that point we'd be in power, so who cares what you think."

Oh my the shock, a politician that addapts his/her programs as so to try to garner as much support as possible at ellections !!!

 

[Metal Biker]

Oh my the shock, a politician that addapts his/her programs as so to try to garner as much support as possible at ellections !!!

Tell that to Ban-Jani and Mon Autre who thinks this is a genuinely honest position to hold!

You're arguing with the wrong person here, methinks. I. Agree. With. You. Here.

 

[FlemishDuck]

Tell that to Ban-Jani and Mon Autre who thinks this is a genuinely honest position to hold!

Well it's honest as long as she's going to go trough with what she prommises, regardless if she believes in it. It is not dishonest to express that you don't believe in youre own policy (au contraire in a way, atleast if thats true), typicly dishonest politics is more about promising a bunch of stuff befor ellections that youre not going to do anyway, like say someone proposing to build a wall around ireland that would likely prove a holow promise eventually for reasons.

But even in general, politicians being brutaly honest would be a nice if albeit very surprising change of general trend, to be fair. Lest to speak about ellections really.

 

[Ban-jani]

A vote on something she and her party doesn't even support the deal that she'd reach.

Her position is that we should remain, so her time spent getting a deal (if she'd even try) isn't something she would support the public to back, so why should we?

"I've managed to get a new deal"

Do you support it?

"No... but you can if you want I suppose"

Why would we if you yourself don't?

It's a proper Gerald Ratner's policy. She just wants power, knows her remain position isn't popular amongst the 35% of labour leavers, votes she needs to get into Government, and this is her "compromise" to the people. "Vote us into power, we'll negotiate a new deal, and then tell you all it's crap, don't vote for it but by that point we'd be in power, so who cares what you think."

You’re engaging in black and white oversimplified politics.

We’ve had people desperate to leave negotiation for the last few years and they’ve got fucking nowhere.

Why are you so bothered that Labour will have a go without having to stick to May’s red lines?

The reason they’ll try and negotiate a good deal is because they need to be seen to have given both remain and leave a try. Their policy has always been to appeal to both sides and therefore the deal they negotiate will be as strong as they can get.

Labour suggesting remain is better will be your government finally being honest with you, I don’t think people can obviously take that.

 

[Metal Biker]

Well it's honest as long as she's going to go trough with what she prommises, regardless if she believes in it. It is not dishonest to express that you don't believe in youre own policy (au contraire in a way, atleast if thats true), typicly dishonest politics is more about promising a bunch of stuff befor ellections that youre not going to do anyway, like say someone proposing to build a wall around ireland perhaps.

But she is being dishonest, or has been for months.

Her position was; "I still advocate to remain, but we respected the result. We believe we can get a deal that everyone, leavers and remainers would support, but you need to vote us into Government".

Last night, Fiona Bruce to her credit, put it to Thornberry that, if after negotiating a new deal, and putting it to a referendum for the public to choose "Labours new WA or remain", would she back Labour's WA that she herself would have negotiated, and her answer was... no.

It's the dumbest thing i've heard come out of her mouth and everyone on the panel and many in the audience groaned. But at least now we know Labour's position. "Vote for Labour! We'll get a new deal with the EU and then WE will tell you NOT to support in a referendum!"

 

[Ban-jani]

Well it's honest as long as she's going to go trough with what she prommises, regardless if she believes in it. It is not dishonest to express that you don't believe in youre own policy (au contraire in a way, atleast if thats true), typicly dishonest politics is more about promising a bunch of stuff befor ellections that youre not going to do anyway, like say someone proposing to build a wall around ireland that would likely prove a holow promise eventually for reasons.

But even in general, politicians being brutaly honest would be a nice if albeit very surprising change of general trend, to be fair. Lest to speak about ellections really.

He doesn’t want honesty, he believes in the Brexit bullshit.

 

[Metal Biker]

You’re engaging in black and white oversimplified politics.

We’ve had people desperate to leave negotiation for the last few years and they’ve got fucking nowhere.

Why are you so bothered that Labour will have a go without having to stick to May’s red lines?

The reason they’ll try and negotiate a good deal is because they need to be seen to have given both remain and leave a try. Their policy has always been to appeal to both sides and therefore the deal they negotiate will be as strong as they can get.

Labour suggesting remain is better will be your government finally being honest with you, I don’t think people can obviously take that.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree won't we. Because I appear to keep repeating myself.

She is being dragged on twitter over her stance. Leavers, especially labour leavers are not falling for it.

 

[Ban-jani]

But she is being dishonest, or has been for months.

Her position was; "I still advocate to remain, but we respected the result. We believe we can get a deal that everyone, leavers and remainers would support, but you need to vote us into Government".

Last night, Fiona Bruce to her credit, put it to Thornberry that, if after negotiating a new deal, and putting it to a referendum for the public to choose "Labours new WA or remain", would she back Labour's WA that she herself would have negotiated, and her answer was... no.

It's the dumbest thing i've heard come out of her mouth and everyone on the panel and many in the audience groaned. But at least now we know Labour's position. "Vote for Labour! We'll get a new deal with the EU and then WE will tell you NOT to support in a referendum!"

You don’t understand it, it’s fine, don’t vote for them but don’t be surprised if they win with this policy.

 

[Metal Biker]

He doesn’t want honesty, he believes in the Brexit bullshit.

Excuse me?

Are you referring to me here?

 

[Ban-jani]

Then we'll have to agree to disagree won't we. Because I appear to keep repeating myself.

She is being dragged on twitter over her stance. Leavers, especially labour leavers are not falling for it.

Twitter is a cesspit of numbskulls and I don’t go on it anymore.

I just don’t think you want Labour telling you the truth whilst giving you a choice.

It’s responsible and refreshing politics.

 

[Ban-jani]

Excuse me?

Are you referring to me here?

Yes, as above.

You don’t want someone to tell you the truth about Brexit, it’s why you voted for Farage.

 

[Metal Biker]

You don’t understand it, it’s fine, don’t vote for them but don’t be surprised if they win with this policy.

Trust me, nobody who supports leave would genuinely vote for Thornberry and Labour if this is her "compromise to those who support leaving the EU with a deal".

A deal she would arrange, then not support or advocate publicly? Yeah, that'll gain her votes, buddy!

 

[Metal Biker]

Twitter is a cesspit of numbskulls and I don’t go on it anymore.

I just don’t think you want Labour telling you the truth whilst giving you a choice.

It’s responsible and refreshing politics.

Of course it is.

 

[Ban-jani]

Trust me, nobody who supports leave would genuinely vote for Thornberry and Labour if this is her "compromise to those who support leaving the EU with a deal".

A deal she would arrange, then not support or advocate publicly? Yeah, that'll gain her votes, buddy!

We’ll see. I think they’ll win.

 

[Metal Biker]

Yes, as above.

You don’t want someone to tell you the truth about Brexit, it’s why you voted for Farage.

You're really going to descend into the cesspit of remoaner style debating now are you? You know my position on brexit is so far removed from the likes of Farage, yet you're trying to beat all leave voters with that stick again?

Shall I call you a bitter traitor who cannot accept a democratic result to balance out your bigotry?