Another new Brexit thread

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Mëtal Bikër said:
But she is being dishonest, or has been for months.

Her position was; "I still advocate to remain, but we respected the result. We believe we can get a deal that everyone, leavers and remainers would support, but you need to vote us into Government".

Last night, Fiona Bruce to her credit, put it to Thornberry that, if after negotiating a new deal, and putting it to a referendum for the public to choose "Labours new WA or remain", would she back Labour's WA that she herself would have negotiated, and her answer was... no.
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So, at what point did she lie? I don't see what is dishonest i expressing that you won't back a deal that you helped negotiate. I think you need to get youre semantics straith if you are going to use the words honesty/dishonesty in relation to that.
 
Vic said:
Now you're making stuff up.
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Also, on the subject of people losing their homes, never forget in the last election the conservative party promised their elderly voters (their largest and loyalist demographic) that if they got poorly the govt would steal their home despite them paying into the NI system for decades .

Guess what? A perfectly workable majority that could have enacted Brexit on time was crushed by a remain supporting PM.

Nobody will ever convince me that wasn't an act of deliberate political self sabotage designed to reduce or eradicate their own majority in order to defer or better yet revoke Brexit "because the commons won't allow us to see it through"

In fairness to them it worked perfectly.

The Tories NEVER intended to allow brexit. They thought they'd win the referendum and kill off ukip in the prpcess. Then they thought they would have to get into a coalition with another party and cancel it that way (whilst still being able to claim it wasn't their fault), then that failed so they deliberately negotiated a deal no sensible sovereign nation could EVER agree to and then we end up with Boris and guess what? Brexit delayed again .

What I didn't foresee was the labour party betraying millions of its own voters in order to cuddle up to the gangster CEO class at the same time.

I along with millions of others have no voice speaking for me. If in ten years we have what would normally be considered an extreme leader and party in, or holding the balance of, power it will be the fault of the establishment and their useful idiots ignoring the will of millions of people .

One thing is for sure. The British people outside the M25 and outside leafy middle class enclaves of privilege will never forget the great betrayal of 2016-19.

Never.
 
If Johnson doesn't ask for an extension then surely we leave without a deal (effectively get thrown out of) the EU on 31st October.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
You're really going to descend into the cesspit of remoaner style debating now are you? You know my position on brexit is so far removed from the likes of Farage, yet you're trying to beat all leave voters with that stick again?

Shall I call you a bitter traitor who cannot accept a democratic result to balance out your bigotry?
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Fuck off bigotry when you voted for that man.

You want someone like that to lie to you and not give you a choice, rather than Labour tell you the truth and give you one.
 
FlemishDuck said:
So, at what point did she lie?
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You didn't read any of that properly did you?

Or if you did it hasn't sunk in. She's "lied" about backing remain but respecting the vote and wanting to arrange for a soft brexit. She doesn't want a soft brexit, she wants no brexit. She wants to con people into thinking she wants a soft brexit to get her party the votes from leave voters it needs to get into Government.
 
Ban-jani said:
Fuck off bigotry when you voted for that man.

You want someone like that to lie to you and not give you a choice, rather than Labour tell you the truth and give you one.
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Why are you getting so angry?

Never have voted for him.

Never believed a word he said during the referendum and wasn't influence or voted by what he said. I supported all along, still do, for the UK to leave the EU and rejoin the EFTA since 2014. You know this, yet you still think I voted for Farage. There is absolutely no debating with you when you cling to this bigoted viewpoint of all leave voters.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Ah, so .. she doesn't back remain and wants to arrange a soft Brexit? Or ... she does back remain, but actually won't arrange a soft Brexit?
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The second, yet for months she was claiming she backed remain, but respected the result and advocated for a soft brexit as possible. Obviously we now know that is not the case.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The second, yet for months she was claiming she backed remain, but respected the result and advocated for a soft brexit as possible. Obviously we now know that is not the case.
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Ah with other words you suspect that she's lying when she makes the promise that she will arrange for a soft Brexit when so asked despite not being behind any form of Brexit? Well, thats an oppinion you can hold, i guess said politician has perhaps a history of making promises that she doesn't follow trough?
 
Cheesy said:
If Johnson doesn't ask for an extension then surely we leave without a deal (effectively get thrown out of) the EU on 31st October.
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Parliament and remainers can think what they like; unless the UK gets it's act together, yes, on Oct 31 2019 the EU has an agreement that the UK will leave without a deal, regardless of what they "wish", that's still the default position.

I think they'd entertain an extension if the UK announces a GE.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Ah with other words you suspect that she's lying when she makes the promise that she will arrange for a soft Brexit when so asked despite not being behind any form of Brexit? Well, thats an oppinion you can hold, i guess said politician has perhaps a history of making promises that she doesn't follow trough?
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There's no "suspect".

That was her position months ago. Last night she revealed that even if she negotiated a soft brexit that she'd agree, she wouldn't publicly support it when she previously said she would support a labour devised soft brexit. Why are you not getting this?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Why are you getting so angry?

Never have voted for him.

Never believed a word he said during the referendum and wasn't influence or voted by what he said. I supported all along, still do, for the UK to leave the EU and rejoin the EFTA since 2014. You know this, yet you still think I voted for Farage. There is absolutely no debating with you when you cling to this bigoted viewpoint of all leave voters.
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You told me you voted for him in the European elections, in fact we had a huge debate on here about it.

We’re done here I think.
 
Ban-jani said:
You told me you voted for him in the European elections, in fact we had a huge debate on here about it.

We’re done here I think.
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Oh yes we are done here, especially if you think I actually voted for him in the EU elections.

Once again you turn a conversation and debate about a different topic, Thornberry's bullshit, and skewer it into one about Farage. It's your MO, especially when you've lost the discussion.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Here's an option "No, I would not advocate going to the EU to get a deal; i'd just campaign to remain".

That would be the most honest answer, like the Lib Dems have done, but she and other Labour MP's know that that stance will not get them what they crave, No. 10. So they're going to try and slime thier way in by promising "we do want to arrange a deal, a better one than the Tories managed" and then when voted in power to do so, would not support they deal that they themselves arranged, because they don't actually support leaving.

There's a reason so many people mocked her last night when she said it.
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Everyone knows this to be true, not everyone will admit it though.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
That was her position months ago. Last night she revealed that even if she negotiated a soft brexit that she'd agree, she wouldn't publicly support it when she previously said she would support a labour devised soft brexit. Why are you not getting this?
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Because youre frankly being very unclear with youre semantics and what you mean. Being dishonest follows upon an act of lying. So you base that act of lying on her changing her position? To be brank, changing one's position doesn't nessecarily need to amount to "lying" or "dishonesty", one can consider that circumstances can provide valid reasons for politicians to change position on a matter. Afcourse for a politician gotten into power on promises it's something else.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Well based on the reactions of others i think she's actually making a calculated move as to garnering support behind her. The real question is why do you question if people can see sense in that position when multiple people express that they see sense in that position?
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They don’t they are just remainers playing the same game as her, very predictable.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Because youre frankly being very unclear with youre semantics and what you mean. Being dishonest follows upon an act of lying. So you base that act of lying on her changing her position? To be brank, changing one's position doesn't nessecarily need to amount to "lying" or "dishonesty", one can consider that circumstances can provide valid reasons for politicians to change position on a matter.
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Thornberry does it; not a liar.
Johnson does it; totes liar!

Is that what you're arguing here?
 
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