Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

i haven't seen anyone on here make the point, but playing devil's advocate, i can see the annoyance with negotiating a deal and then campaigning for remain - what's the motivation to get a good deal if you don't want people to vote for it.

However, I 100% back Labour's position on this in the sense that any deal, no deal and remain should be put back to the people to decide.

Which is exactly the point i've been raising and the reason she got a lot of groans from the panel and the audience.

People can back her on this, absolutely, but people can also now finally see that she only wants people to think she wants to get a brexit deal, and wants people to vote for her in a GE on that basis. In reality, she has revealed that whatever deal she would reach, she wouldn't support it. It's all been rhetoric to gain votes and support in a GE from leave voters in an effort to pull the wool over their eyes for them to gain power. Thornberry does not have leave voters best intentions at heart, and Bruce managed to expose it, finally.

It's been a criticism of Thornberry's position, not Labour's itself. We're saying "be honest Labour MP's; you DON'T support a soft brexit, you support a NO brexit, but you're trying to make out that you DO support a brexit deal to gain our support". Why would leave voters vote for a brexit deal in a referendum, knowing full well that Labour themselves arranged this deal without even supporting it?

 

[Metal Biker]

No you’re a liar and have been for a long period of time. I’m 100% sure you said you voted for the Brexit Party.

My argument on the actual topic remains the same and is true. Labour are telling you the truth and you don’t like it.

Call me a bigot one more time and I’ll report you.

I said I considered it, since no other party in the EU elections were supporting it.

Report away, you're no angel when it comes to mud-slinging and being abusive. You keep calling me a "liar"; guess what I think you are?

This has been over Emily fucking Thornberry FFS!

 

[Damocles]

No you’re a liar and have been for a long period of time. I’m 100% sure you said you voted for the Brexit Party.

When you guys search, you don't search into the mod forums where most of these threads end up but mine does so I looked it up for you.

 

[joe123]

Because they have to appeal to both sides to unite the country and give them the best choice.

They’re trying to do the decent thing and people are losing their heads over it.

Oh I agree - i think people are hugely over-reacting, or maybe she's not selling the point that any deal will be put back to the people effectively enough.

 

[Metal Biker]

It’s not hard is it? the difference between Thornberry now and previously is nothing at all. She just got herself pushed into a corner last night and the truth came out.

"The groan heard around the world"

I just want Labour MP's be honest when it comes to their position on brexit, so when a GE comes around I can factor it into my decision. Fair play to the Lib Dems; they are unapologetically for remaining.

 

[joe123]

Which is exactly the point i've been raising and the reason she got a lot of groans from the panel and the audience.

People can back her on this, absolutely, but people can also now finally see that she only wants people to think she wants to get a brexit deal, and wants people to vote for her in a GE on that basis. In reality, she has revealed that whatever deal she would reach, she wouldn't support it. It's all been rhetoric to gain votes and support in a GE from leave voters in an effort to pull the wool over their eyes for them to gain power. Thornberry does not have leave voters best intentions at heart, and Bruce managed to expose it, finally.

It's been a criticism of Thornberry's position, not Labour's itself. We're saying "be honest Labour MP's; you DON'T support a soft brexit, you support a NO brexit, but you're trying to make out that you DO support a brexit deal to gain our support". Why would leave voters vote for a brexit deal in a referendum, knowing full well that Labour themselves arranged this deal without even supporting it?

Yeah, tbh if I was Labour I would be saying we'll put May's deal to the people, No deal, and remain. Maybe in some sort of 2-tiered referendum. People hate May's deal so that would surely get shot down, and I presume remain would beat no deal, so Labour get what they want!

 

[Metal Biker]

When you guys search, you don't search into the mod forums where most of these threads end up but mine does so I looked it up for you.

Oh no! A factual post that confirms my original viewpoint!

Seriously though, excellent sleuthing. I am getting sick to the back teeth of being associated with the likes of Farage or Boris just for defending my position on wanting the UK to leave the EU and join the EFTA. Those were my intentions and expectations when I cast my vote in 2016. Hasn't played out the way I hoped. Oh well.

 

[Metal Biker]

Yeah, tbh if I was Labour I would be saying we'll put May's deal to the people, No deal, and remain. Maybe in some sort of 2-tiered referendum. People hate May's deal so that would surely get shot down, and I presume remain would beat no deal, so Labour get what they want!

Remain is currently the only logical option given how Government and Parliament have completely messed things up.
But still, if in another referendum the option to join EFTA or something that was catagorically similar was present, i'd absolutely vote for it.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Trust me, nobody who supports leave would genuinely vote for Thornberry and Labour if this is her "compromise to those who support leaving the EU with a deal".

A deal she would arrange, then not support or advocate publicly? Yeah, that'll gain her votes, buddy!

Is it more a case of nobody trusts anything any of them say in public anymore.
On the face of it, it does sound more like; here's the best deal I think we can leave with, but I don't think it's as good as staying because we won't get a deal like that.
But letting you choose.
Noone seems to trust any of them to do what they say though.

Would it be better negotiating such a deal then having a referendum with Her Deal/May's Deal/No Deal(if allowed at that stage)/Remain on the card?
You end up going around in circles as the No Deal becomes redundant if Labour win as they will have it outlawed in legislation (I think, hard to keep up).
If Tories win your back where you started with the possibility of May's deal if the DUP are out of the equation, but nobody trusts them not to go for No deal again.

 

[Ban-jani]

I said I considered it, since no other party in the EU elections were supporting it.

Report away, you're no angel when it comes to mud-slinging and being abusive. You keep calling me a "liar"; guess what I think you are?

This has been over Emily fucking Thornberry FFS!

I know mcfc1632 started calling left wing remainers bigots for merely disagreeing with his stance but you shouldn’t, it’s pathetic.

You did say you had no other choice than the Brexit Party but keep denying it.

 

[hilts]

"The groan heard around the world"

I just want Labour MP's be honest when it comes to their position on brexit, so when a GE comes around I can factor it into my decision. Fair play to the Lib Dems; they are unapologetically for remaining.

Although the Lib Dem woman did say she wanted a 2nd ref but wouldn’t accept the result if she lost this time either. Why can’t these people just publicly admit they would revoke and campaign for it? They will gain votes and lose votes. People go on about the honesty of that tit Johnson but then try and con people into voting for them. It’s not hard if you believe in something people can vote for it or not.

If the tide has turned and the no dealing voters are dwindling just man the fuck up. We might get this resolved much quicker. Compromise has gone get over it and pick a bloody side.

 

[Ban-jani]

When you guys search, you don't search into the mod forums where most of these threads end up but mine does so I looked it up for you.

Thanks Damocles

@Mëtal Bikër why are you liking the post? It’s proven my point.

 

[Metal Biker]

Is it more a case of nobody trusts anything any of them say in public anymore.
On the face of it, it does sound more like; here's the best deal I think we can leave with, but I don't think it's as good as staying because we won't get a deal like that.
But letting you choose.
Noone seems to trust any of them to do what they say though.

Would it be better negotiating such a deal then having a referendum with Her Deal/May's Deal/No Deal(if allowed at that stage)/Remain on the card?
You end up going around in circles as the No Deal becomes redundant if Labour win as they will have it outlawed in legislation (I think, hard to keep up).
If Tories win your back where you started with the possibility of May's deal if the DUP are out of the equation, but nobody trusts them not to go for No deal again.

Exactly, which is why i'm so fed up with the circus of Parliament at the minute, with issues at home being pushed into secondary consideration, just follow procedure, end up staying in the sodding thing and come back to revisit the issue if it is still one than rankles the attitudes of the public.

I don't care that passionately about it as I did, but would still advocate leaving the political bloc if I was asked.

 

[Metal Biker]

Thanks Damocles

@Mëtal Bikër why are you liking the post? It’s proven my point.

No It hasn't, I didn't vote for Farage.

Brexit was, in my eyes, dead.

 

[Metal Biker]

I know mcfc1632 started calling left wing remainers bigots for merely disagreeing with his stance but you shouldn’t, it’s pathetic.

You did say you had no other choice than the Brexit Party but keep denying it.

And you shouldn't call leave voters for having voted for Farage because they support leaving the EU.

Simple, no? I had other choices, Greens were for reforming the EU from within, something I wanted all along, because I support the idea of a trading bloc EU, but not the idea of a political EU.

 

[Ban-jani]

No It hasn't, I didn't vote for Farage.

Brexit was, in my eyes, dead.

I’ve seen some squirming in my time on here and this is right up there.

 

[west didsblue]

No It hasn't, I didn't vote for Farage.

Brexit was, in my eyes, dead.

You voted for two members of the Brexit Party.

 

[Ban-jani]

And you shouldn't call leave voters for having voted for Farage because they support leaving the EU.

Simple, no?

Call leave voters what?

I said don’t call me a fucking bigot when you voted for one.

It’s a defence mechanism to call those who are the opposite of bigots and liberal. Everyone can see it’s a ridiculous tactic and it just demonstrates you don’t know what the word means.

 

[Metal Biker]

I’ve seen some squirming in my time on here and this is right up there.

I say, in the first two words "Never would"

Have you even read and understood the post I put? I seriously think you only read what you want to.

 

[FlemishDuck]

Pff i did make my position ever so clear that as a European and supporter of direct democracy i want Brexit to go trough and Britain to leave the EU atleast in such a way that she's never ever able to blame her own issue's on EU membership again? I'm not looking forward to a soft Brexit that enrage's enough hard brexiteers so that the discussion and whining regarding the relation with the Eu just continue's again and we can have the same thing in version 2 in x amounts of years ....

Not withstanding that eitherhow i think it's not in the best interrests for Britain to do Brexit, i actually do believe it's in the EU's best interrest for Britain to do some "thural enough" form of Brexit, gets rid of that special position that Britain had in the Eu in the first place, that and Farage.

I just can't help feeling shadenfreude if the whole soap goes tits over either despite my preference, it's not because i want that specific outome that i should like the people that are about to deliver it. But in a similar fashion i'm kinda woried regarding the potentialy symphatetic sounding people who would deliver some "way to soft Brexit" that would play to much in the Euroskeptics hands. That doesn't get us rid of Farage, which otherwise was some big sort of "sweetener". :(

I think the best i can hope for is that Britain goes for cheese submarine, or aka May's deal out of sheer desperation for concencus and lack of alternative. That sounds like a propperly defeated form to go and go indeed. And may the pots of gold then inexplicably and uprecedented fall out of the sky for you.