Another new Brexit thread

[Rascal]

I prefer to compare them to those sample menus that restaurants often show on their websites. They give you an indication of what might be on the actual menu. If you turned up and found that nothing from the sample menu was on the actual menu you might be a bit miffed, but as long as it was similar food then you couldn’t really complain. If you turned up expecting Chinese food and only got burgers you would be justifiably cross. But the restaurant would be entitled to leave off the lobster if there was a shortage and prices had rocketed. Similarly if they’d got a good deal on crab, they could add that to the menu.

Yeah, I like that analogy.

It is simply unrealistic to expect all manifesto pledges to be met, because of events.

 

[M18CTID]

How about a bit of reality from the 50s instead of "idyllic" hand-picked photos?

I was born in 1954 and the 50s and early 60s for me consisted of living in damp-riddled rental properties in Lower Broughton and Hyde. As a consequence I've been asthmatic ever since, still on the repeat medication now. Fuck the 50s, I never want to see those days back again.

And don't forget the Great Smog of London in 1952 which killed 4000 and another 100,000 fell ill. Before my time but I don't think the 50's were all they were cracked up to be

 

[Rascal]

Apparently Corbyn is planning to stay neutral during a 2nd referendum campaign. Is that a realistic position for a PM to take?

What would happen if he negotiates a new deal and no senior politician is prepared to lead a referendum campaign in its favour?

If the referendum is a vote for the people that is outside of normal Parliamentary procedures and practices, which it would be then i have no issue with any politician remaining neutral. They have handed over sovergeinty to the people and as a result then it might be for the best if they all stayed out of it. Then malign influences or political bias would be rendered and the vote free of those influences. As a result no MP could then complain on any level.

 

[BlueHammer85]

And don't forget the Great Smog of London in 1952 which killed 4000 and another 100,000 fell ill. Before my time but I don't think the 50's were all they were cracked up to be

Was having this debate the other day - someone said there was very little crime and murders during the 50’s/60’s
I pointed out that’s because it wasn’t reported back then !

 

[lancs blue]

And don't forget the Great Smog of London in 1952 which killed 4000 and another 100,000 fell ill. Before my time but I don't think the 50's were all they were cracked up to be

Good point, the Clean Air Act was one of the finest modern pieces of legislation, I can remember going to school a few times through a smog even as late as the early 60s before the Act had had its full impact.

 

[lancs blue]

Was having this debate the other day - someone said there was very little crime and murders during the 50’s/60’s
I pointed out that’s because it wasn’t reported back then !

Yeah I mean there were only "good old boys" like Christie, Frankie Fraser, the Krays, Jack "the hat" McVitie etc plus those nice Moors Murderers. Salt of the earth types.

 

[M18CTID]

Yeah I mean there were only "good old boys" like Christie, Frankie Fraser, the Krays, Jack "the hat" McVitie etc plus those nice Moors Murderers. Salt of the earth types.

And Fred West was suspected of carrying out his first murder in 1958

Don't forget the Quality Street Gang up here as well. Rumoured to have chased the Krays back onto the train when they turned up in Manchester. Not sure how true that is though

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

I think the reason the Act requires the letter to be sent by mid October is to allow enforcement actions to be taken, including the court nominating some other person to sign in his stead before exit day if he is contempt. So it’s almost certainly an entirely moot point, but it’s interesting to consider that the contemplated act of martyrdom wouldn’t necessarily have any effect in any event.

It also allows just enough time for a vote of no confidence and a rebel government to form. But I would think the legal route is the 1st and best option. Clear breach of the law could lead to BoJo being compelled by a judge to comply and then if he doesn't it is contempt of court which court see him locked up in cell with 'Tommy'.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Apparently Corbyn is planning to stay neutral during a 2nd referendum campaign. Is that a realistic position for a PM to take?

What would happen if he negotiates a new deal and no senior politician is prepared to lead a referendum campaign in its favour?

I am neutral on it. I don’t have a view. It’s safer

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

How about a bit of reality from the 50s instead of "idyllic" hand-picked photos?

I was born in 1954 and the 50s and early 60s for me consisted of living in damp-riddled rental properties in Lower Broughton and Hyde. As a consequence I've been asthmatic ever since, still on the repeat medication now. Fuck the 50s, I never want to see those days back again.

Apparently there were ‘no darkies’ so life was ‘just better.’
You didn’t have anything but you didn’t know you didn’t have anything!

 

[DrBlueBob]

I prefer to compare them to those sample menus that restaurants often show on their websites. They give you an indication of what might be on the actual menu. If you turned up and found that nothing from the sample menu was on the actual menu you might be a bit miffed, but as long as it was similar food then you couldn’t really complain. If you turned up expecting Chinese food and only got burgers you would be justifiably cross. But the restaurant would be entitled to leave off the lobster if there was a shortage and prices had rocketed. Similarly if they’d got a good deal on crab, they could add that to the menu.

I'll have the Chinese crab burger please, and the free wifi code and some tap water.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Apparently Corbyn is planning to stay neutral during a 2nd referendum campaign. Is that a realistic position for a PM to take?

What would happen if he negotiates a new deal and no senior politician is prepared to lead a referendum campaign in its favour?

He was more or less neutral during the first one, which is part of the reason we are in this mess

If he started neutral it would be manner from heaven for the Brexit Party - they would bang on about ‘belief’ and a vote for them would all us to get a better deal, one which a PM could believe in

 

[Vic]

Apparently Corbyn is planning to stay neutral during a 2nd referendum campaign. Is that a realistic position for a PM to take?

What would happen if he negotiates a new deal and no senior politician is prepared to lead a referendum campaign in its favour?

Not quite like Johnson's 2015 plan of a referendum where a Leave vote would mean we could go back to the EU and negotiate better terms of membership then Remain.

Nor like Redwood denying he thought we should have a second referendum on the terms by saying his idea was a first referendum to see if people wanted a referendum. Much more like Rees Mogg's second referendum plan once we knew what the deal was.

https://www.infacts.org/rees-mogg-history-backing-second-eu-referendums/amp/

 

[lancs blue]

Not quite like Johnson's 2015 plan of a referendum where a Leave vote would mean we could go back to the EU and negotiate better terms of membership then Remain.

Nor like Redwood denying he thought we should have a second referendum on the terms by saying his idea was a first referendum to see if people wanted a referendum. Much more like Rees Mogg's second referendum plan once we knew what the deal was.

https://www.infacts.org/rees-mogg-history-backing-second-eu-referendums/amp/

Must be fake news, we keep being told it's impossible for anyone to change their view on Brexit in 3 years. Will of the people and all that...

 

[west didsblue]

Glad to see Boris is fully up to speed with the detail of what is required to replace the backstop. From a meeting with Barnier and Juncker:

According to an account of the meeting, the prime minister was told by his EU counterparts in no uncertain terms that the UK’s plan to replace the backstop by allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock (known as SPS) was not enough to prevent customs checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.
At that point, a befuddled Mr Johnson turned to David Frost, his chief negotiator, and Stephen Barclay, Brexit secretary, and said: “So you’re telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?”
https://www.ft.com/content/7453c686-d9b7-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

Reality strikes in the easiest negotiation in history.

 

[George Hannah]

It also allows just enough time for a vote of no confidence and a rebel government to form. But I would think the legal route is the 1st and best option. Clear breach of the law could lead to BoJo being compelled by a judge to comply and then if he doesn't it is contempt of court which court see him locked up in cell with 'Tommy'.

There is no real difficulty with BoJo's position that he won't sign an extension letter, he just resigns. Less certain but his successor could then surrender our sovereignty to the EU alongside a legal challenge that effectively takes us through the halloween no deal default exit.

 

[Ban-jani]

I am neutral on it. I don’t have a view. It’s safer

At this moment I’m also open minded.

If Labour negotiate another deal, I’ll genuinely read it all through before making my mind up.

I think I’ll probably vote remain again but one should read the content before making such a big decision and shouldn’t go in thinking they’re definitely going to vote for something without doing so.

 

[lancs blue]

Glad to see Boris is fully up to speed with the detail of what is required to replace the backstop. From a meeting with Barnier and Juncker:

According to an account of the meeting, the prime minister was told by his EU counterparts in no uncertain terms that the UK’s plan to replace the backstop by allowing Northern Ireland to stick to common EU rules on food and livestock (known as SPS) was not enough to prevent customs checks on the vast majority of goods that cross the Irish border.
At that point, a befuddled Mr Johnson turned to David Frost, his chief negotiator, and Stephen Barclay, Brexit secretary, and said: “So you’re telling me the SPS plan doesn’t solve the customs problem?”
https://www.ft.com/content/7453c686-d9b7-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

Reality strikes in the easiest negotiation in history.

We'd be better off with a couple of football agents negotiating, at least they're capable of getting benefits for their clients!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

We'd be better off with a couple of football agents negotiating, at least they're capable of getting benefits for their clients!

Or Mike Ashley.

 

[lancs blue]

Or Mike Ashley.

No, he'd only be taking his top off, that's not going to help!