Another new Brexit thread

[Len Rum]

As I pointed out UK plc is doing ok. Better than some in fact.

Thanks for pointing that out mate, we're doing great in the EU!
Not so sure it's that great however. But of course if you're Tory fodder and just focus on the statistics the Government want you to it's all going swimmingly.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I've been arround the block enough times to know that whatever happens in Westminster nothing much changes in the rest of the country. What will be will be. The media have talked themselves into a fenzy but most people arnt that bothered by their shenanigans in Westminster. They are nearly all as bad as each other. Career politicians and civil servants. The populace voted out, but the majority of MPs want to stay in. That's the issue obviously. I can see several hung parliaments in future that's for sure. Finally why would we need your sympathy? As I pointed out UK plc is doing ok. Better than some in fact.

Sympathy?
It’s not the worst emotion considering some I’m feeling regarding the shit storm coming our way when you lot finally stumble across the line by accident.
I didn’t vote our current lot in either, but hey ho, I can’t fault their stance in this so far and we will get on with it whatever the fallout from your lot’s never ending shit show.

 

[Len Rum]

Never once in my fairly long life Len have I voted Tory, or until I cancelled my membership when Corbyn was installed as leader, anything but Labour.

Thanks George for confirming you're a pinko Tory, can you also confirm you're a City fan, there's always been a bit of a doubt about that after your comments towards the end of the 2013/14 season when you disowned our club but then we went on to win the league title.
Thank you.

 

[bluethrunthru]

That'd be a turn up, this thread will be a burning bush if Boris pulls Brexit off lol

the most he can pull off is a WA..............................long long long way fighting the ERG over trade deals with the EU. They won't give a fuck about NZ lamb or Argentinian wine but they will crucify any PM in negotiations on trade with the EU. All they will accept is full access to the EU for no cost - I suspect the reason he won't get the WA he may be suggesting past the ERG ( see Francois on Peston tonight ) is that just tweeking the backstop isn't enough for them. Its the money. They want access to the EU for £0.00 and that is not going to happen..

 

[George Hannah]

Thanks George for confirming you're a pinko Tory, can you also confirm you're a City fan, there's always been a bit of a doubt about that after your comments towards the end of the 2013/14 season when you disowned our club but then we went on to win the league title.
Thank you.

Pinko Tory lol and I've been attending City home and away since 1957. Do remind me what I said 6 years ago as you are obviously an avid student of my posting history - it's open for inspection https://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/search/60732598/ and beyond. I can't remember disowning the club at any time since I joined BM 10 years ago but I was miffed about Mancini being sacked. Please let me know, I'm fascinated to find out what I said.

 

[BobKowalski]

Barnier saying today that "we're working on agreement".
Arlene and Leo, kissing in a tree...
It's no burning bush but it's a sign, none the less.

Arlene starting to soften her position is definitely a sign. The EU would prefer an all Ireland solution as would Dublin and Sinn Fein but it needed Unionist consent just as other solutions needed Nationalist consent. If by some miracle you can get Unionists, Nationalists and Dublin all on the same page then there is space to bring back the WA with revised guarantees on NI.

But the Unionist price for an all Ireland solution that doesn’t threaten the integrity of the United Kingdom or NI’s place in the U.K. will involve a large degree of regulatory alignment between the U.K. as a whole and the EU otherwise I can’t see it happening.

 

[mcfc1632]

I think this is part of the problem with brexit. Leavers can be split into two camps:

1, rationale leavers, those that understand the issues (or some of the issues) but also want to respect the vote. They will want a compromise to minimise the damage and accept only a soft form of brexit will work.
2, ardent leavers, those unwilling to listen to any evidenced based assessment of the implications and want the simplest extraction of ourselves from the EU irrespective of the consequences.

The problem is that there is not the political will to drive either forward as they are very very different outcomes. Neither is sustainable and neither has any competent political force driving it.

That is some spin

We are where we are to a large degree down the attitude of Remainers who also, in the main, seem to split into two camps

1. Utterly intolerant Remainers - those that have never been willing to countenance that the outcome of the referendum should be implemented and have just displayed contempt for all things Leave and arrogance in their confidence that the campaign to overturn the vote will be successful - it is just a matter of time. You can include a lot of the members of the HoC in that grouping and a lot of the citizens that express Remain views on forums such as this one. These, in the main and with relatively few exceptions, have spoken with forked tongues about their wishes to see an outcome that can bring the country together because that served as convenient deceit to hide their true aims. They can now be found screaming about how things could be possibly unfair, wholly blaming all things Leave and all Leave supporters for the potential risk that is emerging because they fundamentally remain intolerant of people having the democratic right to have held and continue to hold a Leave position.

2. Belatedly concerned Remainers - those that have been so arrogant and confident that the vote will be overturned but are now starting to feel the implications of what might happen if there was actually the genuine potential of a no-deal option and the political will to use it. You can include a small, but increasing, minority of members of the HoC in that grouping and a lot of the citizens that express Remain views on forums such as this one. These cannot bring themselves to openly admit that perhaps they should not have been so contemptuous, smug and arrogant over the last 3 years and, deep down, are wishing that they had shown some tolerance and perhaps supported the development of a Leave option, rather than arrogantly assuming that their demands should and will prevail. They are increasingly now found expressing themselves as 'reasonable' and 'balanced' as if they had not spent 3 years expressing utter contempt and confidence that the vote would be overturned.

 

[mcfc1632]

We voted as the UK.

They are a part of the UK because they didn't vote to be independent.

Simples!!

We keep hearing posters bang on about the will of the Scottish voters - but why are the views of English voters not given due consideration?

"While Scotland and Northern Ireland backed staying, every English region except London voted to leave."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36606245

 

[M18CTID]

Pinko Tory lol and I've been attending City home and away since 1957. Do remind me what I said 6 years ago as you are obviously an avid student of my posting history - it's open for inspection https://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/search/60732598/ and beyond. I can't remember disowning the club at any time since I joined BM 10 years ago but I was miffed about Mancini being sacked. Please let me know, I'm fascinated to find out what I said.

Ignore Len. He did more campaigning for Leave on here in the run up to the 2016 referendum than the vast majority of people on here who actually voted Leave bless him.

I’m not sure I can remember the last time he ever posted on any City topics on here so God knows why he’s calling out the credentials of another City fan.

 

[mcfc1632]

So, they still voted to remain in the EU & are being made to leave.

So English voters and the majority of UK voters, voted to Leave the EU and are being forced to Remain - in what way does your comment demonstrate any level of consistency?

 

[mcfc1632]

Barnier saying today that "we're working on agreement".
Arlene and Leo, kissing in a tree...
It's no burning bush but it's a sign, none the less.

It's the sort of thing that can happen when people start to think that there may genuinely be the threat of a no-deal outcome and the political will to use it.

 

[mcfc1632]

Thanks George for confirming you're a pinko Tory, can you also confirm you're a City fan, there's always been a bit of a doubt about that after your comments towards the end of the 2013/14 season when you disowned our club but then we went on to win the league title.
Thank you.

Got to say - the topic of Brexit has caused some extreme posting and views on here

But you calling into question whether a CITY fan is actually a CITY fan is probably a new low - frankly you should apologise IMO​

 

[Rascal]

What makes you think that the will of the people isn't being respected. .

One of the attempts to invoke the vacuous "will of the people" was made by Oswald Moseley and his British Union party.

I find the phrase an onerous contradiction and lacking in validity. How can 17m be considered the "will of the people" when there are circa 60m people. That is less than a third of the populace. That makes it so ambiguous and conflates actual votes cast as being the will. What utter nonsense as it surreptitiously indicates that a proportion of the votes cast carry more weight and influence than other votes cast or views not expressed. It is nothing more than desperate phraseology and it demeans the democratic system.

 

[Vic]

So English voters and the majority of UK voters, voted to Leave the EU and are being forced to Remain - in what way does your comment demonstrate any level of consistency?

Forced to remain? The majority now wants to remain so are being forced to leave.

 

[Ban-jani]

That is some spin

We are where we are to a large degree down the attitude of Remainers who also, in the main, seem to split into two camps

1. Utterly intolerant Remainers - those that have never been willing to countenance that the outcome of the referendum should be implemented and have just displayed contempt for all things Leave and arrogance in their confidence that the campaign to overturn the vote will be successful - it is just a matter of time. You can include a lot of the members of the HoC in that grouping and a lot of the citizens that express Remain views on forums such as this one. These, in the main and with relatively few exceptions, have spoken with forked tongues about their wishes to see an outcome that can bring the country together because that served as convenient deceit to hide their true aims. They can now be found screaming about how things could be possibly unfair, wholly blaming all things Leave and all Leave supporters for the potential risk that is emerging because they fundamentally remain intolerant of people having the democratic right to have held and continue to hold a Leave position.

2. Belatedly concerned Remainers - those that have been so arrogant and confident that the vote will be overturned but are now starting to feel the implications of what might not happen if there was actually the genuine potential of a no-deal option and the political will to use it. You can include a small, but increasing, minority of members of the HoC in that grouping and a lot of the citizens that express Remain views on forums such as this one. These cannot bring themselves to openly admit that perhaps they should not have been so contemptuous, smug and arrogant over the last 3 years and, deep down, are wishing that they had shown some tolerance and perhaps supported the development of a Leave option, rather than arrogantly assuming that their demands should and will prevail. They are increasingly now found expressing themselves as 'reasonable' and 'balanced' as if they had not spent 3 years expressing utter contempt and confidence that the vote would be overturned.

There’s genuinely something wrong with you.

You’re a perfect example of his number 2.

 

[mcfc1632]

Forced to remain? The majority now wants to remain so are being forced to leave.

My word - you twist facts

And it seems invent them as well

 

[Ban-jani]

Of course mcfc1632 still believes it’s the fault of the group of people in the voting minority, who have been totally ignored by the government for 3 years, whilst pandering to the most extreme of Brexit supporters.

It’s total and utter delusion.

 

[mcfc1632]

There’s genuinely something wrong with you.

You’re a perfect example of his number 2.

And I consider you to be a version of my descriptions that I did bother to describe

A sort of hybrid of 1 & 2 with some added 'special qualities'

Well - when I say qualities.....

Anyway - crack on and argue with yourself

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

One of the attempts to invoke the vacuous "will of the people" was made by Oswald Moseley and his British Union party.

I find the phrase an onerous contradiction and lacking in validity. How can 17m be considered the "will of the people" when there are circa 60m people. That is less than a third of the populace. That makes it so ambiguous and conflates actual votes cast as being the will. What utter nonsense as it surreptitiously indicates that a proportion of the votes cast carry more weight and influence than other votes cast or views not expressed. It is nothing more than desperate phraseology and it demeans the democratic system.

It was hardly a thumping majority was it with leave getting a million more extra votes than remain. I would imagine them numpties up in the North East who swayed the vote and fell for the bus headlines, who now have the car industries packing up and going elsewhere in Europe would think again.

Can anyone actually give me a benefit of leaving the EU on the off chance I might vote leave if we get another chance at voting? Also please explain to us all my you were hoodwinked by someone who doesn’t believe in Brexit but thought doing it might look good for his cv and didn’t want to win the referendum anyway?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Luckily he was wearing a mic so sky got it all on film.

No he wasn't