Another new Brexit thread

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George Hannah said:
It's interesting that you think your understanding of sovereignty is superior to all those who believe retaining the power of the population to govern themselves is the single most important benefit of Brexit. I think it confirms the truth of your final assertion but only with respect to yourself.
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That isn’t sovereignty. See the last line.
 
Vic said:
Seriously?

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
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west didsblue said:
hkei08a.jpg
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If you click the button that removes the don't knows (effectively apportioning their votes in the same proportion of remain/leave percentages), the gap is very close (no more than 12%* in one poll) but generally a consistent 4-8% gap. I wouldn't count that as a significant lead. One thing is certain, those with a desire to remain are much more likely to engage/register their feelings so it is unclear if that gap should be a little closer because a lot of those with a desire to leave are not engaging. In my opinion, there's definitely an edge for Remain, of course, but running a referendum could easily return a 52/48 split reversal and what happens then?

Meant to add in that it is best to ignore some of the very wide spike differences as outliers as these generally suggest a response to something specific in the news or a dodgy poll.
 
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M18CTID said:
What, the same poster who could've been banned a dozen times over for his incessant vitriolic attacks on anyone who dared to vote differently to him in the referendum? Who does the same on numerous other threads not related to this one and has done since long before you became a member? Who regularly talks down to posters in a condescending manner and has often acted like he owns this forum?

That comment of George's was indeed unpalatable, but considering the poster stated something completely contradictory to that the other week (that a hard Brexit might actually see him better off), it makes you wonder what he's playing at.
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Is that really what he said? I think it's another fake claim.
 
mcfc1632 said:
In an attempt to hope that you will learn to discuss rather than continue to demean/provoke - I have said very many times versions of:

"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they are faced with a viable Walk-Away (No-Deal) option and the political will to use it.

If you care to search you will also see that I have said quite a few times versions of - but that does not guarantee......

What you say/suggest here is twisting and fabrication - please just stop wanting to cause arguments all the time
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You’re the biggest demeanour on here. You replied to a post comparing reasonable leave voters with unreasonable ones, by putting remainers in two unreasonable categories. You blame everything on the people who have been left behind and who didn’t even get a majority.

Anyway, back on topic.

The EU’s “movement” has been to put the ball back in Johnson’s court and say we’ll come up with an alternative if you want one.

So, zero basically and has completely shown your whole argument to be rubbish.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Ok - I will leave it there - you are just on your campaign to cause arguments on the thread - you do it a lot. I am not going to indulge you.

I suggest that you and your colleague stop being at the centre of the majority of arguments that take place on these threads - eventually this made get noticed.

For other posters this little exchange resulted from me posting that the last 3 years have been spent:

".....accomplishing May's WA which - for a Leave Supporter - is worse than Remaining

It is a Remain WA and it is Leavers that have been wholly ignored"

So the fact that Johnson has been made PM months after May's WA was defeated in parliament is irrelevant.
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If you are replying to who I think you are, you are wasting your time as he is pretty unpleasant and far too agressive to debate anything meaningful with.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
If you click the button that removes the don't knows (effectively apportioning their votes in the same proportion of remain/leave percentages), the gap is very close (no more than 10% in one poll) but generally a consistent 4-8% gap. I wouldn't count that as a significant lead. One thing is certain, those with a desire to remain are much more likely to engage/register their feelings so it is unclear if that gap should be a little closer because a lot of those with a desire to leave are not engaging. In my opinion, there's definitely an edge for Remain, of course, but running a referendum could easily return a 52/48 split reversal and what happens then?
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Most of the leavers want no deal. If they’re only offered a straight choice between soft Brexit and Remain many of them will boycott the vote
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
If you click the button that removes the don't knows (effectively apportioning their votes in the same proportion of remain/leave percentages), the gap is very close (no more than 12%* in one poll) but generally a consistent 4-8% gap. I wouldn't count that as a significant lead. One thing is certain, those with a desire to remain are much more likely to engage/register their feelings so it is unclear if that gap should be a little closer because a lot of those with a desire to leave are not engaging. In my opinion, there's definitely an edge for Remain, of course, but running a referendum could easily return a 52/48 split reversal and what happens then?

Meant to add in that it is best to ignore some of the very wide spike differences as outliers as these generally suggest a response to something specific in the news or a dodgy poll.
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There's hundreds of ways of analysing it. I was just answering the question.
If a new referendum resulted in a 52/48 vote for remain I would say the more recent poll would trump a three year old one.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
If you click the button that removes the don't knows (effectively apportioning their votes in the same proportion of remain/leave percentages), the gap is very close (no more than 12%* in one poll) but generally a consistent 4-8% gap. I wouldn't count that as a significant lead. One thing is certain, those with a desire to remain are much more likely to engage/register their feelings so it is unclear if that gap should be a little closer because a lot of those with a desire to leave are not engaging. In my opinion, there's definitely an edge for Remain, of course, but running a referendum could easily return a 52/48 split reversal and what happens then?

Meant to add in that it is best to ignore some of the very wide spike differences as outliers as these generally suggest a response to something specific in the news or a dodgy poll.
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Based on what?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Very disappointing effort - I saw that some hours ago.

Too close to call

Too many 'don't knows'

Not providing an English only POV

Anyway I best get on with some work
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Are you being argumentative?

I've been following that poll of polls for 3 years. So you saw the evidence and then asked for the evidence? Bizarre.

But I'm glad you think 52/48 in favour of Remain (and mostly higher) is too close to call.

Revoke now and end the madness.
 
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cibaman said:
Most of the leavers want no deal. If they’re only offered a straight choice between soft Brexit and Remain many of them will boycott the vote
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Any binary solution to a non binary problem is going to leave a sizeable chunk of the population feeling angry and ostracised. IMO a multi-choice referendum on the basis of a single transferable vote is the only realistic solution. Whatever the answer is, it will be a answer that the majority either want or can live with.
 
M18CTID said:
What, the same poster who could've been banned a dozen times over for his incessant vitriolic attacks on anyone who dared to vote differently to him in the referendum? Who does the same on numerous other threads not related to this one and has done since long before you became a member? Who regularly talks down to posters in a condescending manner and has often acted like he owns this forum?

That comment of George's was indeed unpalatable, but considering the poster stated something completely contradictory to that the other week (that a hard Brexit might actually see him better off), it makes you wonder what he's playing at.
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Ban-jani said:
Based on what?
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Anger. All that FBPE stuff etc.

You will have heard a lot from leavers similar to "If we don't leave I'm never voting again". These people are not engaging much with politics at the moment and will either keep their word or re-engage when the need arises (from their perspective). I don't think there'll be enough to win another Stay/leave referendum though.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
Anger. All that FBPE stuff etc.

You will have heard a lot from leavers similar to "If we don't leave I'm never voting again". These people are not engaging much with politics at the moment and will either keep their word or re-engage when the need arises (from their perspective). I don't think there'll be enough to win another Stay/leave referendum though.
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So it’s not based on any data then, just your opinion of a few Twitter comments?
 
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