Prorogation - Judgment Day:10.30am Tuesday 24/9/19

[George Hannah]

What will the Supremes be singing? What should they be singing?

Our learned Community of Bluemoon Experts now have a dedicated thread to explain what they have to get right and then why they did or didn't.

I think that once the Queen has given tongue that's it - the separation of powers should be preserved and Parliament remain prorogued. If that constitutional arrangement is breached the road is open to the politicisation of the Supreme Court - a road leading to the US system.

 

[cibaman]

Is it today or tomorrow?

With 11 of them having to decide and then give reasons it could drag on. They might all agree, but then disagree about why they agree.

 

[George Hannah]

Is it today or tomorrow?

With 11 of them having to decide and then give reasons it could drag on. They might all agree, but then disagree about why they agree.

dunno - Marr said it would be today - he thought just two options For or Against the Government,
some think it could be more complicated.

 

[BobKowalski]

Is it today or tomorrow?

With 11 of them having to decide and then give reasons it could drag on. They might all agree, but then disagree about why they agree.

Tomorrow apparently.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Judgment.

 

[George Hannah]

Judgment.

sorry - are you in a position to offer a prediction yet?

 

[M18CTID]

Is it today or tomorrow?

With 11 of them having to decide and then give reasons it could drag on. They might all agree, but then disagree about why they agree.

Probably drag on as long as Brexit

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

sorry - are you in a position to offer a prediction yet?

They will fudge it, by saying that prorogation is capable of being unlawful, but this particular instance isn't so egregious as to render it so. 'Proportionality' or similar such words will have a high word count.

 

[George Hannah]

They will fudge it, by saying that prorogation is capable of being unlawful, but this particular instance isn't so egregious as to render it so. 'Proportionality' or similar such words will have a high word count.

That sounds like a straightforward Boris win then?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

That sounds like a straightforward Boris win then?

I think you need to get past simplistic and binary notions of winners and losers in this whole sorry shit show, George.

 

[George Hannah]

I think you need to get past simplistic and binary notions of winners and losers in this whole sorry shit show, George.

That really is egregious if I may say so. I'm certainly not celebrating this fiasco but the political issue is as simple or as complex as you want it to be. If what you predict comes to pass it means that the Scottish Court decision will be set aside as not having demonstrated that prorogation was unlawful and the Miller appeal in the English Court will not be upheld. It's a win win, Parliament will remain prorogued and the Government will be allowed to pursue its Brexit policy. A clear victory for BoJo and a defeat for Starmer/Cherry/Grieve/Major/ and all who sail with them.
Of course, you and I could both be wrong.

 

[cibaman]

Presumably if it does drag on it’s likely to be bad news for the government? If a majority agreed with the English High Court they would be able to announce that today, wouldn’t they? If they find against the government then they have to get into the issue of remedy which would take longer. Also I think they would be more painstaking in drafting their reasons for deciding against the government.

If they do find against the government I hope the recall of parliament doesn’t cut shorter the party conferences, which so far have been extremely comical. I’m particularly looking forward to next week’s season ending finale.

 

[dave_blue12]

Whatever happens Parliament must legislate to prevent such abuse of power happening again.

 

[George Hannah]

Whatever happens Parliament must legislate to prevent such abuse of power happening again.

I think that may only be necessary if the Supremes don't do the job for them by ruling Prorogation justiciable.

 

[1.618034]

Justiciable and unlawful. Up to the speaker as to when they return.

?

 

[dave_blue12]

I think that may only be necessary if the Supremes don't do the job for them by ruling Prorogation justiciable.

I think it must be done whatever the outcome.

Governments like Johnson's have little regard for the law or the judiciary

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

I think it must be done whatever the outcome.

Governments like Johnson's have little regard for the law or the judiciary

Sadly a large % of the electorate think he should be breaking the law, regardless.
“We believe totally in Parliamentary sovereignty”. “Except when we don’t”..

 

[George Hannah]

Sadly a large % of the electorate think he should be breaking the law, regardless.
“We believe totally in Parliamentary sovereignty”. “Except when we don’t”..

Parliament is sovereign under the monarch - that is the present constitutional position. The separation of powers is essential for it to work and the Royal prerogative cannot be a matter for the Courts.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Justiciable and unlawful. Up to the speaker as to when they return.

?

Can it be unlawful and not justiciable?
Doubt it, but my guess would be something along those lines.
Perhaps a recommendation or pointer showing how the law needs changing to close a loophole around proroguing indefinitely.

My guess is Boris will come away feeling happy, but I know SFA really about the law around this, so it's just a feeling from what I've read.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Parliament is sovereign under the monarch - that is the present constitutional position. The separation of powers is essential for it to work and the Royal prerogative cannot be a matter for the Courts.

If he doesn't secure a 'deal' should he ask for an extension to Article 50?