Another new Brexit thread

[FlemishDuck]

Hopefully the losers of that can accept this time?

It's not a matter then of being willing to accept or not what a parlementary majority would decide. Pitty them brexiteers couldnt manage a parlementary majority for the last 3 years though huh?

 

[blueinsa]

It's not a matter then of being willing to accept what a parlementary majority would decide. Pitty them brexiteers couldnt manage a parlementary majority for the last 3 years though huh?

Parliamentary make up can and will change at the next GE.

Any other pearls of wisdom to bestow upon us poor Brits from within the EU?

Point of order. Can i kindly suggest you install an English spell check into your browser and use it before posting? I accept English isn't your first language but its fucking infuriating reading your posts at times as you preach to us yet cant be bothered to spell even the simplest of words correctly. Thanks.

 

[mcfc1632]

Listening to the Moggcast.

He is the 1st Tory MP I have heard say that leaving the EU opens the door for Socialism, he obviously recognises the LEXIT approach and whilst saying he doesn't think the nation will elect a Socialist Government he knows that leaving the EU increases the chances of Socialism coming to the UK.

He is not as stupid as I thought.

Some of us have been repeatedly stating that all genuine Socialists should recognise that their ideal structures/model can never be achieved whilst the UK is in the EU - you are pretty unique in this TBF.

That is why I consider a lot of the 'hard-left' posters on here to be 'faux Socialists'

 

[FlemishDuck]

Some of us have been repeatedly stating that all genuine Socialists should recognise that their ideal structures/model can never be achieved whilst the UK is in the EU - you are pretty unique in this TBF.

Oh am i really? And if so, .. and so what?

Youre saying because you and some friends have some alledged conformity that you want to push that i am therefore being non-conformist to the rather arguably views of that clique? I don't see the issue if even so, its not like youre any authority on anything. Even then, i didn't argue afaik that "genuine socialists could achieve their ideal model in the EU", in fact i argued that EU laws imposed certain imitations.

That is why I consider a lot of the 'hard-left' posters on here to be 'faux Socialists'

Why do you consider a lot of "hard left" posters to be "faux socialists"?? I don't get you?? What does this have to do with my post?

 

[mcfc1632]

Brexshit going down the crapper and that’s your best shot?

I did say that I had set my expectations of seeing some Remainers demonstrate some honesty and character on this matter low

I was clearly right to do so

 

[Vic]

Arbitration....
to be effective it would need to be supported by pre-determined criteria which confirmed what a 'minimum viable border' would look like - .....

Currently the EU stance is essentially nothing that is physical...….. that is not a remotely realistic and exposes the real intention of having the backstop 'unfettered' - total and unlimited control over the setting of the UK's economic and trade policy for as long the EU sees fit.

Just to be clear, are you saying that a hard border is inevitable? That there are no "alternative arrangements" that could avoid a hard border, and that therefore getting rid of the backstop would mean breaching the GFA? That there is no solution that does not breach the GFA?

(Other than something that would keep us in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border.)

 

[mcfc1632]

Oh am i really? And if so, .. and so what?

Youre saying because you and some friends have some alledged conformity that you want to push that i am therefore being non-conformist to the rather arguably views of that clique? Although, i didn't argue afaik that "genuine socialists could achieve their ideal model in the EU", in fact i argued that EU laws imposed certain imitations.

Erm - you may wish to:

a) read my post again

b) realise that I was replying to @Rascal - not you - then

c) delete your post

d) post an apology (that is optional)

 

[blueinsa]

Oh am i really? And if so, .. and so what?

Youre saying because you and some friends have some alledged conformity that you want to push that i am therefore being non-conformist to the rather arguably views of that clique? I don't see the issue if even so, its not like youre any authority on anything. Even then, i didn't argue afaik that "genuine socialists could achieve their ideal model in the EU", in fact i argued that EU laws imposed certain imitations.



Why do you consider a lot of "hard left" posters to be "faux socialists"?? I don't get you?? What does this have to do with my post?

He wasn't talking to you ffs.

 

[Vic]

Parliamentary make up can and will change at the next GE.

Any other pearls of wisdom to bestow upon us poor Brits from within the EU?

Point of order. Can i kindly suggest you install an English spell check into your browser and use it before posting? I accept English isn't your first language but its fucking infuriating reading your posts at times as you preach to us yet cant be bothered to spell even the simplest of words correctly. Thanks.

Not always the correct English but still makes more sense than some. By the way, in your post capital "I" is needed and cant needs an apostrophe. Unless it means the cant you often spout. And "it's" not "its".

 

[FlemishDuck]

Erm - you may wish to:

a) read my post again

b) realise that I was replying to @Rascal - not you - then

c) delete your post

Whoopsie that was obviously an error, not like that i actually feel so ashamed that i'd need to feel that i should delete it. Let all the world see that i am not perfect or withought fault.

Still, i think it's kinda silly that you try to push the youre perception of "true socialism cannot exist in the EU" as some conformity view. Sure, limitations exist trough obligations to a trade pact as often is the case with trade agreements, but in a intellectualy honest debate imho it must be recognised that the Eu framework still allows "more than enough socialism" by contemporary pragmatic western norms. Youre conclusion that "lefties should be anti-EU" has afaik been challenged before in the community.

 

[Vic]

He wasn't talking to you ffs.

Or to you...

 

[FlemishDuck]

Point of order. Can i kindly suggest you install an English spell check into your browser and use it before posting? I accept English isn't your first language but its fucking infuriating reading your posts at times as you preach to us yet cant be bothered to spell even the simplest of words correctly. Thanks.

From a perspective of interrest in linguistics and understanding their growth, i actually feel motivated to leave it as it is and perhaps "let it grow" as a somewhat distinct Belgian-English dialect that i would like to coin "Blinglish".

 

[blueinsa]

Or to you...

Yet it didn't stop you interjecting when I wasn't speaking to you either.

This is a great game Vic.

Shall we play it all day?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yet it didn't stop you interjecting when I wasn't speaking to you either.

This is a great game Vic.

Shall we play it all day?

You talking to me?

 

[blueinsa]

You talking to me?

 

[west didsblue]

You cant turn the clock back.

I've been against all sorts of things in my life, including GE at certain times but once they have been called and people have voted that is that.

3 years of desperately trying to overturn a result because you didn't agree with its timing or in this instance the way it was formed isn't a reason other than you lost and are desperate to get your own way.

If thats our new democracy where the loser dictates from now on then i am out and i suspect most people will be.

Your post bears little relationship to facts. 498 MPs voted into law the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017 and just 114 voted against. If they were trying to overturn the result that act of parliament would never have been allowed to become law. This gave a green light to the fascists on the right of the Tory party to push for the most severe form of Brexit possible which was not the position of the majority of those who voted for invoking Article 50. The blame for the subsequent fiasco lies fairly and squarely with arseholes like Mogg, Johnson and Francois and their ERG/DUP chums who refused to endorse the only deal on the table. Admittedly it was a shit deal because of the red lines that were put in place to appease those cunts. Blaming all the MPs that voted Remain is just wrong and the fact you trot out this bollocks so regularly just shows up your cluelessness about the whole subject.

 

[blueinsa]

Your post bears little relationship to facts. 498 MPs voted into law the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017 and just 114 voted against. If they were trying to overturn the result that act of parliament would never have been allowed to become law. This gave a green light to the fascists on the right of the Tory party to push for the most severe form of Brexit possible which was not the position of the majority of those who voted for invoking Article 50. The blame for the subsequent fiasco lies fairly and squarely with arseholes like Mogg, Johnson and Francois and their ERG/DUP chums who refused to endorse the only deal on the table. Admittedly it was a shit deal because of the red lines that were put in place to appease those cunts. Blaming all the MPs that voted Remain is just wrong and the fact you trot out this bollocks so regularly just shows up your cluelessness about the whole subject.

Fascists...

Change the fucking record lol.

Clueless is political debate and thinking you will change anyone's mind or opinion by shouting fascist every other word.

By the way i was talking directly to a remain voter and wasn't even talking about parliament but cool story anyway.

 

[George Hannah]

 

[mcfc1632]

Whoopsie that was obviously an error, not like that i actually feel so ashamed that i'd need to feel that i should delete it. Let all the world see that i am not perfect or withought fault.

Still, i think it's kinda silly that you try to push the youre perception of "true socialism cannot exist in the EU" as some conformity view. Sure, limitations exist trough obligations to a trade pact as often is the case with trade agreements, but in a intellectualy honest debate imho it must be recognised that the Eu framework still allows "more than enough socialism" by contemporary pragmatic western norms. Youre conclusion that "lefties should be anti-EU" has afaik been challenged before in the community.

Don't think that I am seeking to push my view on anyone at all

I am just stating that for me it seems obvious that a 'genuine' Socialist would recognise that membership of the EU is inconsistent with establishing the model/structures that would allow a Socialist state to be established.

Just a statement of fact as far as I am concerned and I do not see why it is considered particularly debateable

I was commenting to @Rascal that he was an exception in demonstrating this understanding

 

[BobKowalski]

If you vote in your by-election tomorrow and your candidate wins but the losers all say fuck that, we want someone else and your man isnt sitting in Westminster would you be ok with that?

Labour wins the next GE but everyone else says fuck that, Corbyn is what too dangerous and we refuse to accept him or a Labour government. You ok with that?

Im not interested in how the ref should have been run or the question asked etc because its all after the fact and all because you lost the vote, that is 100% clear. Everyone knew the rules of the vote and the question asked and had you won not a peep would have been heard.

The only way out of this madness as you put it is to respect the result and leave. By all means rejoin later if its shit but if you think you can ride roughshod over a vote that 17.4 million voted for and won you are pissed and certainly not in a position to ask me what form of democracy i am interested in.

I must have missed it when a day after the Referendum Cameron said ‘fuck that’, stayed in office and ignored the result. I must have imagined the country tying itself into knots trying to implement Brexit via three Prime Ministers, one GE and an unlawful suspension of Parliament. I definitely imagined the bit where we spent two years negotiating and concluding a treaty to leave the EU which was then voted down in part by MPs who have vowed to leave the EU.

Remainers and Leavers may share the same country but it seems we inhabit different realities.