Prorogation - Judgment Day:10.30am Tuesday 24/9/19

George Hannah said:
The Extension Act had already received royal assent. Labour's extremists know they have no chance of winning a GE and their sole intention is to destabilise the democratic process and they have succeeded by politicizing the courts and further polarizing the country.
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Labour want to destabilise the democratic process lol.

You mean the same Labour that want parliament to stay open, pushed through a bill that says parliament is sovereign on Brexit decisions, will be pushing for a GE as soon as Johnson can’t force through a no deal without asking parliament or the public, want a 2nd referendum for the public to decide on a new deal because the current one is dead and want the Tories to abide by the law? By the way it wasn’t them who took Johnson to court.

You are so wrong on so much it’s hilarious.

You’re actually happy for Johnson to behave illegally and bypass our democratically elected representatives. You’re happy for him to lie to the Queen and use her as a political pawn. You’re happy for him to force through a no deal when he has no mandate and no deal has no mandate.

You’re part of the extremist side of Brexit and are supporting fascist behaviour to get what you want.
 
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If Mogg would be as intelligent as he is practicly presented to be, then he should know far better than to start questioning the legal foundations of the nation. There must be some sort of intellectual dishonesty attached, he knows that this is a potentially dangerous path towards instabillety.

Imho what appears to youre average human as a system well bolted into place is infact quite potentially easily made unstable. I for one trough an interrest in linguistics think i can understand the very linguistic challenges that even prop up in all this. Languaghe is actually a very limiting factor to the capabillety of humanity to express matters "just right" besides that languaghe is dynamic and subject to various interrests trough "political languaghe". It's even not that hard afaik to find example's of constitutional law around the globe that is discribed in languaghe so much out of vogue that sometimes it really just becomes a matter of interpretation by lawmakers. Sometimes political interrests make correctly describing a word like "terrorism" quite the political deal. Cue such terms as "the spirit of the law", and the problematic discussions that arose before when democracy's got unstable over some law being used against it's arguable spirit.

Where any non anarchistic society must achieve some degree of order, it's not advisable to undermine the impression regarding the legallity of the goverment's institutions. This is in fact something that also aplies to Johnson in that his attempts of political abuse could have set a precedent to being used against him later so usually this is kinda seen as betraying the very framework that supports youre own position. If one intellectually accepts that the legallity of goverment is "much in the mind of people" and that ethicly some order/stabillety is preferable to have then one should intellectually be capable to treat it with more dignity and respect?
 
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mancity2012_eamo said:
Bobby Sands?
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Good point. Found this.

You can't be an MP if you're a civil servant, an undischarged bankrupt, a member of the clergy, police or armed forces, a prisoner serving more than a year in jail, or if you've been found guilty of certain electoral offences.

Following Sands's election win, the British government introduced the Representation of the People Act 1981 which prevents prisoners serving jail terms of more than one year in either the UK or the Republic of Ireland from being nominated as candidates in British elections
 
FlemishDuck said:
If Mogg would be as intelligent as he is practicly presented to be, then he should know far better than to start questioning the legal foundations of the nation. There must be some sort of intellectual dishonesty attached, he knows that this is a potentially dangerous path towards instabillety.

Imho what appears to youre average human as a system well bolted into place is infact quite potentially easily made unstable. I for one trough an interrest in linguistics think i can understand the very linguistic challenges that even prop up in all this. Languaghe is actually a very limiting factor to the capabillety of humanity to express matters "just right" besides that languaghe is dynamic and subject to various interrests trough "political languaghe". It's even not that hard afaik to find example's of constitutional law around the globe that is discribed in languaghe so much out of vogue that sometimes it really just becomes a matter of interpretation by lawmakers. Sometimes political interrests make correctly describing a word like "terrorism" quite the political deal. Cue such terms as "the spirit of the law", and the problematic discussions that arose before when democracy's got unstable over some law being used against it's arguable spirit.

Where any non anarchistic society must achieve some degree of order, it's not advisable to undermine the impression regarding the legallity of the goverment's institutions. This is in fact something that also aplies to Johnson in that his attempts of political abuse could have set a precedent to being used against him later so usually this is kinda seen as betraying the very framework that supports youre own position. If one intellectually accepts that the legallity of goverment is "much in the mind of people" and that ethicly some order/stabillety is preferable to have then one should intellectually be capable to treat it with more dignity and respect?
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Similarly, promising the people a referendum and promising to implement the result of that referendum, then reneging on that promise is probably not the best way to promote faith in democracy. Those of us who voted to leave can see the legal and political establishment bending the rules in order to frustrate that outcome, and at the end of the day politicians will answer for these actions because true sovereignty rests with the people.
 
hgblue said:
Similarly, promising the people a referendum and promising to implement the result of that referendum
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Indeed, more specificly promising the people a referendum, giving them a non binding referendum and promising to implement that. There is certaintly plenty of room to make allegations of political dishonesty there.

hgblue said:
probably not the best way to promote faith in democracy.
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uhuh
 
Ban-jani said:
Labour want to destabilise the democratic process lol.

You mean the same Labour that want parliament to stay open, pushed through a bill that says parliament is sovereign on Brexit decisions, will be pushing for a GE as soon as Johnson can’t force through a no deal without asking parliament or the public, want a 2nd referendum for the public to decide on a new deal because the current one is dead and want the Tories to abide by the law? By the way it wasn’t them who took Johnson to court.

You are so wrong on so much it’s hilarious.

You’re actually happy for Johnson to behave illegally and bypass our democratically elected representatives. You’re happy for him to lie to the Queen and use her as a political pawn. You’re happy for him to force through a no deal when he has no mandate and no deal has no mandate.

You’re part of the extremist side of Brexit and are supporting fascist behaviour to get what you want.
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Your going to have to stop this Ban. How can I keep agreeing with you?? Mind you, not difficult when George is involved. :)
 
Ban-jani said:
....You’re actually happy for Johnson to behave illegally and bypass our democratically elected representatives. You’re happy for him to lie to the Queen and use her as a political pawn. You’re happy for him to force through a no deal when he has no mandate and no deal has no mandate.You’re part of the extremist side of Brexit and are supporting fascist behaviour to get what you want.
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Harsh BJ, none of the above. I'm a Utopian like you and what we both want- although different- just ain't gonna happen. I want a reformed EU, a political system that doesn't end up killing people who don't agree with it and an economic system that doesn't end up destroying the planet and everybody in it. Always open to suggestions on how that can be done.
 
George Hannah said:
Harsh BJ, none of the above. I'm a Utopian like you and what we both want- although different- just ain't gonna happen. I want a reformed EU, a political system that doesn't end up killing people who don't agree with it and an economic system that doesn't end up destroying the planet and everybody in it. Always open to suggestions on how that can be done.
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F..k me, what is happening? Agreeing with Ban AND George within minutes of each other. Going to have to go back to bed with my Sonatagen. :)
 
"Boris needs to resign with immediate effect" says the opposition...

"So what are you all going to do to force it today"?

"Nothing".

This is the opposition holding the government to account.
 
hgblue said:
Similarly, promising the people a referendum and promising to implement the result of that referendum, then reneging on that promise is probably not the best way to promote faith in democracy. Those of us who voted to leave can see the legal and political establishment bending the rules in order to frustrate that outcome, and at the end of the day politicians will answer for these actions because true sovereignty rests with the people.
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None of you give a fuck about “democracy” or “sovereignty” or you would have all been up in arms when your hero shut down Parliament, and you’d have all been celebrating when he got slapped down yesterday.

You just want your Brexit now. Whatever it looks like. Whatever it costs. You’ve all stopped preaching any benefits whatever and stopped denying the damage. You just want your Brexit because you are stuck in a corner with nowhere to go except admit you were wrong.
 
I must make a disti.. Discrimination that some perhaps overlook:

Even if the referendum for Brexit would have been binding, it would not have legal authority over the good friday agreement. The good friday agreement would entail a form of international obligation that no binding referendum could touch.
 
blueinsa said:
"Boris needs to resign with immediate effect" says the opposition...

"So what are you all going to do to force it today"?

"Nothing".

This is the opposition holding the government to account.
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They’re not stupid. Get Boris to ask for extension first otherwise Brexit will happen in the middle of an election.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
They’re not stupid. Get Boris to ask for extension first otherwise Brexit will happen in the middle of an election.
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He has to ask for an extension as per the Benn amendment.

No deal is off the table so what are they hiding away from?

Defeat perhaps?
 
Didsbury Dave said:
None of you give a fuck about “democracy” or “sovereignty” or you would have all been up in arms when your hero shut down Parliament, and you’d have all been celebrating when he got slapped down yesterday.

You just want your Brexit now. Whatever it looks like. Whatever it costs. You’ve all stopped preaching any benefits whatever and stopped denying the damage. You just want your Brexit because you are stuck in a corner with nowhere to go except admit you were wrong.
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So you keep saying.

Do you stand in front of a mirror when you do dave?
 
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