Prorogation - Judgment Day:10.30am Tuesday 24/9/19

Good point. Found this.

You can't be an MP if you're a civil servant, an undischarged bankrupt, a member of the clergy, police or armed forces, a prisoner serving more than a year in jail, or if you've been found guilty of certain electoral offences.

Following Sands's election win, the British government introduced the Representation of the People Act 1981 which prevents prisoners serving jail terms of more than one year in either the UK or the Republic of Ireland from being nominated as candidates in British elections
Yes, TLWYS got there just ahead of you. @blueinsa got there ahead of both of you, however his argument that Bobby was 'IRA Scum' didn't in fact exclude him from running for Westminster. It's just as well for a lot of your representatives that being 'Scum' of any persuasion isn't an excluding factor.

If Boris got a sentence of less than a year or a suspended sentence would this stop him running? Is what he is guilty of , an electoral offence?
 
Yes, TLWYS got there just ahead of you. @blueinsa got there ahead of both of you, however his argument that Bobby was 'IRA Scum' didn't in fact exclude him from running for Westminster. It's just as well for a lot of your representatives that being 'Scum' of any persuasion isn't an excluding factor.

If Boris got a sentence of less than a year or a suspended sentence would this stop him running? Is what he is guilty of , an electoral offence?

I wasn't arguing, I was just calling him for what he was imo.
 
Not punctuation, I clearly wasn’t referring to your last post. I said that I know “sometimes like to get the thesaurus out”.
What was that about comprehension? Now, let’s get back on topic. How are Labour destabilising the democratic process?
Excellent, well done. It seems you now fully comprehend that your earlier remark was a piece of wholly irrelevant, gratuitous and dishonest personal abuse.
Labour tactics in delaying an election they know they can't win are straight from the Marxist Textbook or indeed the Fascist equivalent. Destabilize and demean the existing democratic processes, polarising the country by promoting extremists and await further opportunities for exploiting the inevitable political and economic chaos through unremitting class/race warfare.
 
Yes, Parliament.

The issue of this withdrawal agreement is only the beginning.

We then have the prospect of the same people, then negotiating the future relationships with Europe , the world, which is when the real stuff starts.

Yet many of you even having seen them in action during this part, would still vote for it all to carry on & hand the keys to the next, bigger runaway truck, to whoever happens to crawl on top of this shit heap.

You may all have the chance to stop this but many will still vote to trust this current shower of shit or maybe Diane Abbott & crew, to negotiate the biggest most important deals in living memory, both with the EU & Chinese etc, Americans etc, who we will need onside, as well as solve the Irish border without bringing back terrorism.

Then you will complain about it, when it inevitably causes mayhem & fuckup after fuckup ensues, which is exactly what will happen, unless it's stopped. This is not the actual deal, it's the withdrawal. Corbyn may be the one doing the 'deals' & have to do a trade deal with Donald Trump. You don't know.

If you were a football CEO, you would be doing the equivalent of sacking Arsene Wenger for under performing & giving all your transfer budget for the next 30 years to Steve Maclaren but with a possibility it might be David Moyes.

The sensible option, even for those who want a Brexit, is to realise what it is they will actually get, rather than what they would like to get & if given the chance again: fuck it off.
 
The issue of this withdrawal agreement is only the beginning.

We then have the prospect of the same people, then negotiating the future relationships with Europe , the world, which is when the real stuff starts.

Yet many of you even having seen them in action during this part, would still vote for it all to carry on & hand the keys to the next, bigger runaway truck, to whoever happens to crawl on top of this shit heap.

You may all have the chance to stop this but many will still vote to trust this current shower of shit or maybe Diane Abbott & crew, to negotiate the biggest most important deals in living memory, both with the EU & Chinese etc, Americans etc, who we will need onside, as well as solve the Irish border without bringing back terrorism.

Then you will complain about it, when it inevitably causes mayhem & fuckup after fuckup ensues, which is exactly what will happen, unless it's stopped. This is not the actual deal, it's the withdrawal. Corbyn may be the one doing the 'deals' & have to do a trade deal with Donald Trump. You don't know.

If you were a football CEO, you would be doing the equivalent of sacking Arsene Wenger for under performing & giving all your transfer budget for the next 30 years to Steve Maclaren but with a possibility it might be David Moyes.

The sensible option, even for those who want a Brexit, is to realise what it is they will actually get, rather than what they would like to get & if given the chance again: fuck it off.

No a GE means most of these people will hopefully be on the dole.

Country needs a GE so the electorate can decide if we leave the EU or not.
 
No a GE means most of these people will hopefully be on the dole.

Country needs a GE so the electorate can decide if we leave the EU or not.

Most of them will be back along with perhaps a handful of even worse, more extreme ones.

Then if Brexit continues, they have the keys to the truck.

It's bad enough having them just doing the basic jobs here, without also giving them the job of redefining the whole future of the country, especially when it could be either of completely opposed factions who are responsible when the time comes.
 
EFTELmTX4AINBTg
 
Most of them will be back along with perhaps a handful of even worse, more extreme ones.

Then if Brexit continues, they have the keys to the truck.

It's bad enough having them just doing the basic jobs here, without also giving them the job of redefining the whole future of the country, especially when it could be either of completely opposed factions who are responsible when the time comes.

Agree more extreme ones will be there.

Remain politicians have opened that box.
 
1. Neither do you, happy to revoke right now and fuck every single one of the 17.4 million votes off.

2. Happy to see the prick get his arse handed to him but also happy to call it for what it was which is a remain coup and fuck all to do with sovereignty. reverse and proroguing for 5 weeks means we remain and you're at the wank bank.

3. You just want your remain now. Point?

4. Have we or have you never listened?

5. See 3. You're waffling again Dave.

He couldn't talk any more bollocks if he fucking tried. So far off beam it's untrue. But then this is Mr Fucking Know It All we're talking about. More like Mr Know Fuck All.
 
Agree more extreme ones will be there.

Remain politicians have opened that box.

The referendum was engineered by those very people. The Tories feared them & gave them this.

If they find an answer to the Irish border problem, like they claim they have & promised they would, the backstop could go, now, & the withdrawal agreement might still even now, get through.

The truth is, they have never had an answer & lied about that, like they lied about everything else.

If they actually come up with a genuine agreement, we could still go, in October.

Then the true catastrophe begins.
 
So call the vote of no confidence and dethrone and put Corbyn in charge who can call for it.

Remain now has a majority.

What is stopping them??
Soames indicated last night that he and the other 21 might be in favour of Boris remaining as PM.
They'd want to be pretty sure that they'd win a vote of no confidence before calling for it.
Sounds insane that they might not win one at this stage but, the place is insane.
 
I’ve posted what follows in another thread but it seems apposite here, too. You are absolutely right that Parliament is sovereign, as Dicey explained. Despite that, the forum is replete with people who asserts that somehow we have lost sovereignty even when you show them that the highest court in the land has clearly repeatedly said we have not.

To my mind, this insistence that Parliament is no longer sovereign raises two questions:

1. If the reduction in a nation state’s ability to act as it chooses as a result of EU membership is NOT a loss of sovereignty, what is it? And

2. Whatever it is, why does it keep on getting described as a loss of sovereignty when that is categorically what it is not?

As to the first, the answer actually is quite simple. Even where the UK is legally entitled (as a matter of UK law) to act in a particular way, the political consequences of doing so frequently make such action unthinkable, even if legally possible. It is an excellent thing to have the strength of a giant but tyrannous to use it as a giant would.

Take this example. In 1919 (IIRC) Parliament voted that the 26 southern counties of Ireland should become independent. Legally it would be open to Parliament now to revoke that law, and any other law recognising Irish independence which followed it, on the application of the straightforward principle that any law that Parliament has made can be unmade. You don’t need me to tell you however that the political consequences of doing so would be catastrophic, so Parliament would never choose to do so even though as a strict matter of UK law it could.

In the context of international agreements, the fact that the United Kingdom enters into a treaty or enters into a convention stipulating that it will act in a particular way does not involve any loss of sovereignty. What it does do is render it politically unacceptable that it should act in a way that contravenes that agreement, even though it is legally open to it to do so as a matter of UK law. So, it is legally open to Parliament to decree that enemy combatants should be executed without trial, but it would be incompatible with the Geneva convention to do so, thus Parliament’s legal freedom to act as it chooses is limited by non-legal factors. Similarly, it is open to the UK Parliament to disapply any law emanating from the EU that it chooses, but again the political (including economic) consequences would be such that the absolute legal freedom enjoyed by Parliament to act as it chooses is in practice constrained by non-legal factors.

So why, given that accession to all international agreements and structures involves accepting political constraits on our freedom to act as Parliament chooses, is the inevitable acceptance of those constraints described in this, but only this, instance as a loss of sovereignty? Why for instance do those advocating that we leave the EU on WTO terms not acknowledge that this would involve a similar curtailment on our freedom to act as we choose? Why is membership of NATO not similarly described?

Well, in my opinion - and here we depart from the realm of law (which is settled, though not always universally understood) and enter the realm of opinion - the answer is that claims of a loss of sovereignty, whilst inaccurate, are more emotive. If your complaint is that abiding by an international treaty prevents us from doing what we want when we want, it doesn’t really set the pulse racing. Of course we can’t do what we want, but the benefits of signing up outweigh the limitations that signing up places on our freedom to act. Complaining about it is not exactly going to get people manning the barricades.

The claim that we has lost our sovereignty goes far far beyond that. It hints at a nation being emasculated. It hints of dark foreign powers that threatened us with invasion in the last century and the centuries before. It represents a challenge to our national identity and our place in the world. It’s bullshit to say we have lost our sovereignty, of course, but it speaks to our very sense of identity.

Is this deliberate? In my view it is. The argument that membership of the EU involves a loss of sovereignty (in terms what sovereignty actually technically means) is advanced either by those who don’t understand what it means, or do understand it and advance the argument dishonestly. My view is that the argument emanated from the latter and has been taken up by the former. The proponents of the argument that we have lost sovereignty are also those who said we could send the £350m we currently send to Brussels every week to the NHS. They are the people who put up a poster during the referendum campaign about immigration containing the headline ‘breaking point’ showing a series of black faces when thre is not a single EU member state that does not have a majority white population. I could go on. The claim we have lost our sovereignty stands alongside the other emotive, dishonest claims that came from the leave side.

Fabulous post.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Excellent, well done. It seems you now fully comprehend that your earlier remark was a piece of wholly irrelevant, gratuitous and dishonest personal abuse.
Labour tactics in delaying an election they know they can't win are straight from the Marxist Textbook or indeed the Fascist equivalent. Destabilize and demean the existing democratic processes, polarising the country by promoting extremists and await further opportunities for exploiting the inevitable political and economic chaos through unremitting class/race warfare.

You have a fantastic ability to completely devoid yourself of any reality or understanding.

It’s quite clear that the immediate GE, prior to Oct 31st, is a tactic to undemocratically force through no deal. It isn’t just Labour who have found this to be the case. The LibDems are polling their highest for years and are set to massively benefit from a GE, they too, alongside the SNP, Greens and PC, have all declined the GE because all know it’s a trap.

The minute that Oct 31st deadline is gone and no deal cannot be forced through, the GE will take place.

It’s a massively childish tactic to defend irresponsible and immoral fascist behaviour by accusing those accusing you of the same thing.

Also, stop trying to use big words to waffle through a none-point, everyone can see through you.
 
Yes please: In fact I've broken it down into it's constituent parts to make it easier for you to rip to pieces, which you surely will as you found it so "amusing":

1) None of you give a fuck about “democracy” or you would have all been up in arms when your hero shut down Parliament

2) or “sovereignty”, and you’d have all been celebrating when he got slapped down yesterday.

3) You just want your Brexit now. Whatever it looks like. Whatever it costs.

4) You’ve all stopped preaching any benefits whatever and stopped denying the damage.

5) You just want your Brexit because you are stuck in a corner with nowhere to go except admit you were wrong.
1) I can’t quite work out if you’re being serious or not. You support sacking off the result of the biggest exercise in democracy this country has ever seen and you’re on here lecturing me about respecting democracy. Either you’re taking the piss or completely lacking in self awareness and empathy.
2) Successive governments of both parties have signed up to a political project, surrendering significant amounts of parliamentary sovereignty in the process, knowing that this was hugely controversial, but presenting the public with no direct say on whether this is acceptable. Then when the pressure becomes unbearable and a say is offered, the British people deliver the verdict and this is to be ignored? And you come on here as some sort of defender of parliamentary sovereignty. Really?
3) I’ve always been clear that I want a deal with a smooth transition leading to a best in class free trade deal that protects the economy and respects the GFA. So you’ve made this bit up I’m afraid.
4) i’m Always banging on about the benefits of Brexit, either you’ve genuinely missed this, or you’ve made this bit up also.
5) I don’t think I’m wrong so I’m hardly likely to admit it am I?
 
It’s quite clear that the immediate GE, prior to Oct 31st, is a tactic to undemocratically force through no deal. It isn’t just Labour who have found this to be the case. The LibDems are polling their highest for years and are set to massively benefit from a GE, they too, alongside the SNP, Greens and PC, have all declined the GE because all know it’s a trap. The minute that Oct 31st deadline is gone and no deal cannot be forced through, the GE will take place.
Your continued personal abuse is simply an indication of your inability to argue your case rationally. A GE before 31 October would have allowed the country to mandate a Brexit with or without a deal before that date, a later one will still allow the same mandate with a later date. Do you not understand this simple reality?
 

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