Prorogation - Judgment Day:10.30am Tuesday 24/9/19

Ban-jani said:
You think I’ve been radicalised because I want the Prime Minister to calm his language that’s resulting in death threats for opposition MP’s?

Johnson is a fascist, look at his behaviour.
Click to expand...

So you can call brexit supporters trying to get a vote through fascists but he can’t say surrender? Ok I get it.
 
worsleyweb said:
So you can call brexit supporters trying to get a vote through fascists but he can’t say surrender? Ok I get it.
Click to expand...

This has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. Supporting Brexit and trying to implement it through legal and democratic means, using the House, certainly isn’t fascist or even close to being.

This is about him illegally suspending parliament and manipulating the Head of State.

Whatever the reason he’s done the above is a side issue.
 
Ban-jani said:
This has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. Supporting Brexit and trying to implement it through legal and democratic means, using the House, certainly isn’t fascist or even close to being.

This is about him illegally suspending parliament and manipulating the Head of State.

Whatever the reason he’s done the above is a side issue.
Click to expand...
It wasn't necessarily illegal BEFORE he suspended parliament, there was mixed opinion on that from many legal professionals. Only AFTER the Supreme Court ruled it so did the law become confirmed.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Very magnanimous of you, to take over the Barnett formula payments, they're nudging £2000 per head at the moment ;)
Click to expand...

What is that, one's "perception" of Scottish debt? I think it would be up to discussion who'd pay up for it. :p Afterall, i suppose the UK as a whole profited a long time from Scottish oil and gas aswell, not sure if the Scots need the uk more or if the UK needs Scotland
 
Ban-jani said:
You said you instantly dismissed it.

That’s not disagreeing.

Why don’t you try telling me why you don’t think he’s behaving like a fascist?
Click to expand...

No U.K. mainstream politician is a fascist, not a single one.

All democratically elected, as was Johnson for leader of the party and thus PM in the exact same way Swinson was and Corbyn was and if they held a majority or had been the parties of power now they too would have been PM.

See....not a fascist in sight anywhere.
 
Ban-jani said:
He’s a fascist then, just a useless one.

Got it.
Click to expand...

I see him more like "a sinister agent for crony capitalism". Something like "He is going to sell the UK to the laisse faire/neoliberal trade interrests of the USA and get a fat paycheck for it, doesn't mind to try very hard."

He's also making democracy more unstable, but he could also more empower his rivals trough that and his rediculous ineptitude.
 
FlemishDuck said:
What is that, one's "perception" of Scottish debt? I think it would be up to discussion who'd pay up for it. :p Afterall, i suppose the UK as a whole profited a long time from Scottish oil and gas aswell, not sure if the Scots need the uk more or if the UK needs Scotland
Click to expand...
Well, not exactly, the formula props up Scotland with a per head subsidy, if they become independent, they're on their own.
but seeing as the EU would welcome them, then it's no longer our problem, it's yours. Much of the oil is in the Shetland region,
they want to stay part of the UK, which is great for us, but it's all not relevant at present, we'll see.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Well, not exactly, the formula props up Scotland with a per head subsidy, if they become independent, they're on their own.
but seeing as the EU would welcome them, then it's no longer our problem, it's yours. Much of the oil is in the Shetland region,
they want to stay part of the UK, which is great for us, but it's all not relevant at present, we'll see.
Click to expand...

Eitherway no great issue from my perspective, some Eu members are poorer that has never been the inherit issue to an internationalist view.

Besides, We belgians take no offense to "a confederacy of states within a confederacy of states", so if Scotland wants to be part of "the british confederacy" which in turn might be part of the EU thats fine too, if you know what i mean in regards to their level of independance.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Aka, you wouldn't mind granting Scotland more budgetery autonomy or even independance providing they take on part of the UK debt?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what your saying here, personally, I value the union, in fact that union was confirmed with the Scottish referendum.
Since that, we've endured a constant barrage of requests from an irritating Scots Premier for yet another referendum, as she
didn't like the result of the first, (see any patterns developing here?), plus our House of Commons has got a large number of
Scottish separationists constantly demanding it. If they get what they want and vote out, then yes, I'm not bothered if they join the
EU, then their support is over to you.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Since that, we've endured a constant barrage of requests from an irritating Scots Premier for yet another referendum, as she
didn't like the result of the first, (see any patterns developing here?),
Click to expand...

Yeah they are doing a fine job. :D

Ancient Citizen said:
If they get what they want and vote out, then yes, I'm not bothered if they join the
EU, then their support is over to you.
Click to expand...

fair enough.
 
FlemishDuck said:
So am i. Distinctivly i'm a confederalist internationalist with prefference for heavy decentralisation where possible. So i support Scottish independance and would welcome them in the EU.
Click to expand...
In the extremely unlikely event it ever happens, Brexit will be a disaster for the SNP. The fiction that the EU would welcome an independent Scotland will be a fitting inscription for their memorial monument. It's testimony to the good sense of the Scots population that they would never swallow the absurd idea that undoing 300 years of UK integration would benefit their country in any way. Especially when they see what's needed to extricate ourselves from just 40 years' worth of much less complex trading relationships. It's the old story, who else but us would want them? Bit like who else would want the responsibility for solving the intractable issues in NI - for demographic reasons the GFA has ensured a United Ireland is inevitable but there is an increasing reluctance voiced in the Republic for them to take on its consequences.
 
FlemishDuck said:
I do think Johson is acting dangerous towards democracy, but i don't think facist is the most apt word to use. I think you compared a certain group to Brownshirts for his cause yesterday but i'm not sure if you understood the role of brownshirts in Hitlers rise to power then as i seem to do. The thing with brownshirts is that they formed a quasi army of several hundred thousands in a time where Germany was limited to a 100.000 man army. The significance of the brown shirts were rather specific to the enviroment then, because it's perhaps not hard to see how a nation can loose control and power when a faction within can mobilise a fighting force several times the size of that of the goverment, lest to speak that even significant part of the army and police supported the facists. The vacuum in Germany allowed the Brownshirts even to police large parts of the country. Afcourse when it came to ellections the brownshirts would use various tactics to make Hitler win among those intimidation of the ellectorate and the death threats to MP's in the UK (especially when also having cases of political assasination) can be then seen as somewhat similar to that, certaintly concerning for democracy. What you don't have is an effectivly mobilised army of right wingers forcing people to vote for their cause, no'r any chance for them to beat the country's armed forces in a bid for power or any territory defacto controlled by them by sheer vacuum left by a neutured goverment.

Bojo does seem to use various machinations to seize more power for himself, machinations that look similar to various ones used at times in the past. Maybe here and there they seem to be taking hints from the facist trickbook but imho he's taking even more from Caesar.

I don't think it's all that usefull to use the word "facist", it's a laden term and i think it makes people on the right feel attacked by hyperbole aswell. Nevertheless what Bojo is doing is deeply concerning imho.
Click to expand...
Quite well put.
I've thought similar, both in the UK and the US.
It's more borrowing similar tactics and adapting them to modern day living and situation.

It is insidious none the less.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top