Another new Brexit thread

[Ban-jani]

And he was elected on that basis.

Ah yes, who by?

 

[Chippy_boy]

It’s a real shame when you joke and someone thinks you’re being serious.

Yes 25 days for parliament to be shut and for Johnson to move the date, hence why no one has fallen for this desperate attempt to force through no deal, without a mandate.

He could no more have moved a legally binding date than he can ignore a legally binding legislation they bothered to pass.

I'm sorry mate, I am not buying it and more importantly 40m voters aren't either. Corbyn has simply acted out of political expediency. You can disagree if you like

 

[Neville Kneville]

And those who find his behaviour acceptable are predominantly Leavers or Tory zealots, etc and so on.

Nobody, should find this current situation & this government acceptable, irrespective of Brexit or usual political leanings imo.

This is not a normal case of politics, it's dangerous.

 

[Chris in London]

That's most interesting, thanks very much for taking the trouble to explain, as you may have guessed I'm no lawyer. It's been a tricky couple of days actually, we've had a City supporting judge friend who's an ex Law Commisioner staying as a house guest and my lay views on loss of sovereignty etc have also been under great strain as a result. He'd also had the AG appearing before him recently and was not well disposed after the great man's frequent absences due to other pressing engagements - which extended the trial by several weeks. We watched Sir Geoffrey's parliamentary statement together on TV and he found his reaction to the SC judgment highly amusing. I shall reflect further on both your comments before trespassing on this subject again.

What a nice post. Thank you so much for your reply.

 

[Ban-jani]

Agreed.

And that being the case, assertions that Johnson's behaviour is either acceptable or unacceptable, are tainted with bias.

This isn’t the case.

May fucked up not reaching across the house to begin with and negotiating poorly, which included hiring total buffoons into the negotiating the team.

But whilst her behaviour was poor tactically, she upheld a proper democratic process and didn’t try and bypass parliament to get her vote through.

Johnson’s actions transcend Brexit and I actually hope he gets a deal.

 

[Ric]

Agreed.

And that being the case, assertions that Johnson's behaviour is either acceptable or unacceptable, are tainted with bias.

Perhaps. I guess most most political assertions are tainted with bias to some extent. Surely you accept though that he is behaving in a way that no previous Prime Minister has done? Are you genuinely comfortable with his approach?!

 

[Ban-jani]

He could not more have moved a legally binding date than he can ignore a legally binding legislation they bothered to pass.

I'm sorry mate, I am not buying it and more importantly 40m voters aren't either. Corbyn has simply acted out if political expediency. You can disagree if you like

How many times do you need telling that parliament is shut for 25 days once a GE is called and the PM chooses the date?

It’s all here - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-49004486

Even if the opposition could get back, with just a few days to try and get a new law put through, the risks are incredibly high and it makes perfect sense to wait until that date of Oct 31st is gone.

 

[purplenose]

I think there may well be a hung Parliament again tbh. Many moderate Conservatives and pro-Leave Labour voters will find the notion of voting for Johnson just as unpalatable as those you claim simply couldn’t vote Labour.

You say "I claim" which suggests you dispute my claim? I am one of those.

I agree there could well be a hung parliment in which case we will be no further forward on the Brexit issue than we are now. For this reason I think we honestly need a second referendum before a general election. I think that would be a defeat for democracy and quite possibly its death sentence in some respects but such is the dire state of affairs i cannot see any other way that would cause less damage to the future well being prospects of any kind of unity in this country.

Once that referendum was to take place and its result acted upon without delay, the a general election should be held so people could chose which party would be better to lead the country through that time.

 

[Ban-jani]

You say "I claim" which suggests you dispute my claim? I am one of those.

I agree there could well be a hung parliment in which case we will be no further forward on the Brexit issue than we are now. For this reason I think we honestly need a second referendum before a general election. I think that would be a defeat for democracy and quite possibly its death sentence in some respects but such is the dire state of affairs i cannot see any other way that would cause less damage to the future well being prospects of any kind of unity in this country.

Once that referendum was to take place and its result acted upon without delay, the a general election should be held so people could chose which party would be better to lead the country through that time.

Absolutely this.

 

[robbieh]

You say "I claim" which suggests you dispute my claim? I am one of those.

I agree there could well be a hung parliment in which case we will be no further forward on the Brexit issue than we are now. For this reason I think we honestly need a second referendum before a general election. I think that would be a defeat for democracy and quite possibly its death sentence in some respects but such is the dire state of affairs i cannot see any other way that would cause less damage to the future well being prospects of any kind of unity in this country.

Once that referendum was to take place and its result acted upon without delay, the a general election should be held so people could chose which party would be better to lead the country through that time.

Not often I agree with Blair but you and he are right. An election afterwards means it won't just be about Brexit.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Do you not see it is people holding these views that are alienating the centre people, it is people like you that make it more likely that the Tories will be poisoning this country for years to come. You really might as well vote for them come the next election.

So what the fuck exactly would you do, otherwise ?

You fancy a 2nd referendum do you ? Great but what about them ?

If it wasn't for me, you'd have voted for it, but now, I've ruined the whole thing on this City forum so you have changed your mind ?

Or perhaps you had worked out a compromise, with Bozo &Nigel Farage ?

How daft would I have to be to buy that ?

 

[Chris in London]

This isn’t the case.

May fucked up not reaching across the house to begin with and negotiating poorly, which included hiring total buffoons into the negotiating the team.

But whilst her behaviour was poor tactically, she upheld a proper democratic process and didn’t try and bypass parliament to get her vote through.

Johnson’s actions transcend Brexit and I actually hope he gets a deal.

In fairness to May, when we started negotiations with the EU we hadn’t negotiated a trade deal since 1972. If our negotiators were a bit shit, it’s not really a surprise, as many pointed out at the time.

I wonder how many other predictions made at that time will come to pass.

 

[Ric]

You say "I claim" which suggests you dispute my claim? I am one of those.

I agree there could well be a hung parliment in which case we will be no further forward on the Brexit issue than we are now. For this reason I think we honestly need a second referendum before a general election. I think that would be a defeat for democracy and quite possibly its death sentence in some respects but such is the dire state of affairs i cannot see any other way that would cause less damage to the future well being prospects of any kind of unity in this country.

Once that referendum was to take place and its result acted upon without delay, the a general election should be held so people could chose which party would be better to lead the country through that time.

Yes, I agree a second referendum would be the most pragmatic way forward, although it still seems highly unlikely to me.

 

[meltonblue]

Well the polls suggest your mates are atypical.

I agree, that’s exactly why I said the second part of my post.

 

[meltonblue]

The change has been drastic in the West.

Had this been either side of the wars in the Middle East, early 2000’s or mid 2000’s - there’d be no need for a politics sub forum and it wouldn’t even begin to clog the off topic forum.

Nobody gave a fuck, it was TV, music and football that dominated.

Politics is everywhere now and I genuinely believe it’s a mixture of social media and the financial crash that’s done it.

It’s not even just more interest too, now the centre ground is the minority and many are either firmly left or right.

Social media and the internet in general for me has been the biggest change. Both in the echo chambers they allow but also rather than the “everyone is sick of experts” theory, I think it’s more everyone thinks they are an expert themselves as they have access to google and also they now have a voice that is amplified. I see it a few times where people are having a debate on a forum and you can tell both sides are frantically googling in between posting replies. People seem to be less willing to just say “I don’t know” anymore.

 

[purplenose]

Yes, I agree a second referendum would be the most pragmatic way forward, although it still seems highly unlikely to me.

I just cannot see any other way of finding anything close to a resolution. The first one should have been acted on within days or at least weeks but wasnt and nothing can change that. For me three years is too long to have waited and this shambles was always going to occur in my view. As it stands there will be hell up at best and something approaching civil unrest and conflict at worst.

You can add to that that both sides lied through their teeth in the campaign which in itself adds merit to having another vote now we can all say we are a little bit more enlightened to what may or may not occur as a result of which ever way we finally go.

Non of it is ideal but I think we are at the stage of damage limitation sadly.

 

[purplenose]

Not often I agree with Blair but you and he are right. An election afterwards means it won't just be about Brexit.

Not sure I like being likened to Mr Blair lol! That said in terms of recent PMs I think he was about the best out of a bad lot...So I will take it.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Fuck

You do rant some utrer shit

That of course is a 'respectful' reply, which you would not complain about, if it was you, receiving it.

I don't mind & I just called you 'horrible' in another.

I would point out, that when I got in tonight, I had 6 alerts from you

SIX.

Then got told off for ruining the political spectrum, for telling you what I thought about it.

 

[purplenose]

So what the fuck exactly would you do, otherwise ?

You fancy a 2nd referendum do you ? Great but what about them ?

If it wasn't for me, you'd have voted for it, but now, I've ruined the whole thing on this City forum so you have changed your mind ?

Or perhaps you had worked out a compromise, with Bozo &Nigel Farage ?

How daft would I have to be to buy that ?

Struggling to make head nor tail of this response too be honest.

What I am saying to you is whilst you are perfectly entitled to your belief those such as yourself with such far left views will do nothing but alienate moderate centre folks and push them further away from siding with either remain or left leaning parties. You are one of the prime culprits when it comes to branding anyone with even a modicum of sympathy with leaving the EU or even being open to going to the moderate left should a time come when that is an option. In short it is people such as yourself who will hand votes to the Tories even under the leadership of bumbling Boris...can you not see that truthfully?

Changed my mind? on what? Which way I would vote in another referendum?

 

[Neville Kneville]

Struggling to make head nor tail of this response too be honest.

What I am saying to you is whilst you are perfectly entitled to your belief those such as yourself with such far left views will do nothing but alienate moderate centre folks and push them further away from siding with either remain or left leaning parties. You are one of the prime culprits when it comes to branding anyone with even a modicum of sympathy with leaving the EU or even being open to going to the moderate left should a time come when that is an option. In short it is people such as yourself who will hand votes to the Tories even under the leadership of bumbling Boris...can you not see that truthfully?

I DO NOT HAVE FAR LEFT VIEWS FOR FUCKS SAKE.

I have about 100 posts on here explaining how I think Corbyn, is a useless wanker who is equally responsible for this fucking mess, by destroying the opposition & giving power to these cunts.


These fucking people I am replying to, are not 'moderate' anything, they are 100 % full of shit, end of.