Another new Brexit thread

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Mëtal Bikër said:
Because you don't know yourself what the "point" was. :)

I've told you mine; Canada is in the same boat as Norway in regards to accepting EU rules. It's an irrelevant point to raise as anyone who wishes to trade with the EU has two options; accept their rules in order to trade, OR become a fully paid up member, get ignored, veto the things you don't like... and STILL have to accept the EU's rules.

Ooh decisions, decisions...

P.S. Did you effectively just tell me to "Google it"? I expect someone reading that will be smiling at your hypocrisy.
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No it's not in the same boat.
There are significant differences between Norway's and Canada's relationships with the EU.
There you go, I've looked it up for you
https://fullfact.org/europe/brexit-trade-deals-norway-canada-options/
Neither option would remove the need for the backstop as that could only be removed if NI was in a Customs Union which does not apply to Norway or Canada.
 
George Hannah said:
Every single MP who didn't support Brexit is equally culpable, they failed to honour the referendum result as promised.
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Rubbish. From the moment that the May government decided to opt for a purely Tory Brexit by excluding the rest of Parliament from having a say and failing to seek a consensus, the blame lies fairly and squarely with the government and those Tory MPs who voted against May's deal.
 
west didsblue said:
No it's not in the same boat.
There are significant differences between Norway's and Canada's relationships with the EU.
There you go, I've looked it up for you
https://fullfact.org/europe/brexit-trade-deals-norway-canada-options/
Neither option would remove the need for the backstop as that could only be removed if NI was in a Customs Union which does not apply to Norway or Canada.
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Jesus wept...
I wasn't discussing the "merits" of the various deals Canada and Japan have concluded, I was pointing out how it's irrelevant making the point of how Norway doesn't get to influence the rules, because they aren't a full member, because their main concern is economic relationship with Europe, not a political one, just. like. Canada. and. Japan.

That is the same sort of relationship I now want with Europe, the same relationship I want with the EU. Economic, only. Does that mean we have to accept their rules that they decide? Yes. Do I care? No. So using the Norway situation is ineffective, because the fact is Canada, Japan and Norway are not members of the EU, which is exactly what some of us voted to be; no longer a member of the EU.

So what the hell you posted that link for is anybody's guess, because you clearly didn't understand where I was coming from, lot of that going around today. It's like you have LBCitis; you expect every person who voted leave to have the same arguments, goals and incentives as those who ring up chat radio, so you argue from that point of ignorance. Economic, not political, and not a member of the EU, just like Canada, Japan and Norway enjoy. It really is that simple of a premise when asking some of us leavers what it is we want from leaving.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Jesus wept...
I wasn't discussing the "merits" of the various deals Canada and Japan have concluded, I was pointing out how it's irrelevant making the point of how Norway doesn't get to influence the rules, because they aren't a full member, because their main concern is economic relationship with Europe, not a political one, just. like. Canada. and. Japan.

That is the same sort of relationship I now want with Europe, the same relationship I want with the EU. Economic, only. Does that mean we have to accept their rules that they decide? Yes. Do I care? No. So using the Norway situation is ineffective, because the fact is Canada, Japan and Norway are not members of the EU, which is exactly what some of us voted to be; no longer a member of the EU.

So what the hell you posted that link for is anybody's guess, because you clearly didn't understand where I was coming from, lot of that going around today. It's like you have LBCitis; you expect every person who voted leave to have the same arguments, goals and incentives as those who ring up chat radio, so you argue from that point of ignorance. Economic, not political, and not a member of the EU, just like Canada, Japan and Norway enjoy. It really is that simple of a premise when asking some of us leavers what it is we want from leaving.
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No need to get so excited. I get it. You want to be a rule taker with no say and not a rule maker with the ability to influence the rules in our favour.
And you accused me of wanting serfdom!
YCNMIU.
 
west didsblue said:
No need to get so excited. I get it. You want to be a rule taker with no say and not a rule maker with the ability to influence the rules in our favour.
And you accused me of wanting serfdom!
YCNMIU.
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You want people who aren't educated enough on a topic to be prohibted from having a legitimate vote on it. That's a little bit extreme to suggest that maintaining sovereignty and being allowed to trade with non-EU countries and arrange agreements without their interference, entirely on our behalf, means advocating serfdom. Although it's nice to know its stung you a little. :)

Is Canada, a sovereign nation, a "rule-taker" of the EU, in your eyes? Or are you of the "It's better to be on the inside being pissed on, than on the outside... still being pissed on", mentality? YCNMIU.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
You want people who aren't educated enough on a topic to be prohibted from having a legitimate vote on it. That's a little bit extreme to suggest that maintaining sovereignty and being allowed to trade with non-EU countries and arrange agreements without their interference, entirely on our behalf, means advocating serfdom. Although it's nice to know its stung you a little. :)

Is Canada, a sovereign nation, a "rule-taker" of the EU, in your eyes? YCNMIU.
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In answer to your last question, as far as tariff free trade with the EU is concerned, of course Canada is a rule taker. You said so yourself.

In answer to your first point, you've already shown yourself up by taking that point literally, now you're doubling down. If I were you I wouldn't have mentioned it again because it's a reminder of your inability to comprehend irony.
 
west didsblue said:
In answer to your last question, as far as tariff free trade with the EU is concerned, of course Canada is a rule taker. You said so yourself.

In answer to your first point, you've already shown yourself up by taking that point literally, now you're doubling down. If I were you I wouldn't have mentioned it again because it's a reminder of your inability to comprehend irony.
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No-one cares. I'm pretty sure it's established you have no respect for me or my opinions. You don't have to keep repeating it.

All you tend to demonstrate is how much you adore the EU and your disdain for any of it's partners, locally or globally. Norway, is not a "rule-taker" in a negative sense, IMO. It voluntarily accepts the terms of trade with the EU. At any point it has the ability to end that agreement, and since the EU wishes to trade with these other nations, it has to take their concerns into account when formulating these "rules". Otherwise the deal is not done.

I suppose it depends on how you look at it, really. You prefer to denigrate anything non-EU, I choose not to. I accept that in order to trade with the EU, we must accept those rules, but that non-EU members have the added bonus to walk away at any time and form a better relationship elsewhere, so the only ones missing out, would be the EU.

"Canada also does not have to align its laws with the EU. There are a few areas of “mutual recognition” in assessing goods and accepting professional qualifications, but there is no requirement for Canada to observe most European rules, such as the principle of free movement."

Imagine having that freedom.
 
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Mëtal Bikër said:
Norway, is not a "rule-taker". It voluntarily accepts the terms of trade with the EU. At any point it has the ability to end that agreement, and since the EU wishes to trade with these other nations, it has to take their concerns into account when formulating these "rules". Otherwise the deal is not done.
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It amuses me that it only takes a single page for you to totally contradict yourself.
Mëtal Bikër said:
That is the same sort of relationship I now want with Europe, the same relationship I want with the EU. Economic, only. Does that mean we have to accept their rules that they decide? Yes. Do I care? No. So using the Norway situation is ineffective, because the fact is Canada, Japan and Norway are not members of the EU, which is exactly what some of us voted to be; no longer a member of the EU.
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I've ignored the rest of your unsubstantiated waffle.
 
west didsblue said:
It amuses me that it only takes a single page for you to totally contradict yourself.


I've ignored the rest of your unsubstantiated waffle.
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Yeah you would do, but if you look back at my post, I anticipated that you'd think that way, and edited it to more accurately reflect what I mean it to say. That in my opinion, Norway isn't a "rule-taker" as you'd see it as a negative term, which is your intent, isn't it. Because that's the problem with debating with you; you're always on the look out for "gotcha's" and you are incapable of respecting others opinions, even if you don't agree with them.

"I've ignored the rest of your unsubstantiated waffle". XD what a load of tosh! Maybe if you had actually read it, the part you highlighted would make more sense to you. That's why context is important when debating. Read the whole thing, and it makes more sense. Most times you're your own worst enemy.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Yeah you would do, but if you look back at my post, I anticipated that you'd think that way, and edited it to more accurately reflect what I mean it to say. That in my opinion, Norway isn't a "rule-taker" as you'd see it as a negative term, which is your intent, isn't it. Because that's the problem with debating with you; you're always on the look out for "gotcha's" and you are incapable of respecting others opinions, even if you don't agree with them.

"I've ignored the rest of your unsubstantiated waffle". XD what a load of tosh! Maybe if you had actually read it, the part you highlighted would make more sense to you. That's why context is important when debating. Read the whole thing, and it makes more sense. Most times you're your own worst enemy.
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I read it alright and stopped at the point where you said "All you tend to demonstrate is how much you adore the EU and your disdain for any of it's partners, locally or globally".
Maybe you could point to a post that backs that up otherwise I'd give up and stop embarrassing yourself.
 
Chris in London said:
About 40% of MEPs are female. From what you say about every EU politician you see being male I can only assume you’ve never seen Ann Widdecombe. If that is correct, I strongly advise keeping it that way. Your life will be the better for it.

MEPs are elected by way of proportional representation. So a political party having X % of the vote gets to select X% of that country’s MEPs. If the candidates at the top of their lists are all ma


It follows from what you say that you’ve never seen Ann Widdecombe.

You lucky, lucky man.
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There is a reason she is still a virgin..
 
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