Another new Brexit thread

[FlemishDuck]

No, I’m not confused. The language on this thread is very imprecise. I don’t know many SNP MP’s personally but wouldn’t argue that some of them may well be ‘English haters’. However I don’t hear them being overtly critical of the ‘English’ in public. Westminster, the Conservative Government, policy, Brexit, yes for sure, but the English as a whole, I must have missed that. The vast majority of Scots are not anti English but you wouldn’t guess that from this thread.

As a Flemming within Belgium my perception is that the Scots are simply uhappy that they conspiciously appear "2nd priority at best". Consider that there are plenty of types of "unions of states" in the form of confederacy's and federations where members would have a veto, and it appears to me that if Scots had that veto there wouldn't even be a Brexit. In the end it's about wether Scotland is an equal member of the union to their wishes or just a part of a larger country here they represent a minority. One could atleast argue that if the UK was made of equal parts that the referendum should have passed in all 4 country's of the union first. With Brexit the interrests of England seem to be taken over that of Scotland, atleast from the pov of many scots apparently.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

And until they are achieved it is right and proper that they send democratically elected representatives to Westminster. Good we agree on that then.

Indeed, and it's perfectly reasonable for the English to wish them god speed in their endeavours.

 

[George Hannah]

Infesting parliament George? What a very arrogant and colonial attitude. I'm no nat but I can see why language like that drive many scots to have nationalistic affiliation.

They are just a wrecking mob, like the Brexit MEPs - following a one club separatist agenda for which they have no mandate. When and if Scotland votes for independence good luck to them but until then these republicans should be honest about their allegiances and stay away like Sinn Fein. (Although then going on to wreck their own devolved government like SF is not to be encouraged.)

 

[Saddleworth2]

They are just a wrecking mob, like the Brexit MEPs - following a one club separatist agenda for which they have no mandate. When and if Scotland votes for independence good luck to them but until then these republicans should be honest about their allegiances and stay away like Sinn Fein. (Although then going on to wreck their own devolved government like SF is not to be encouraged.)

You have a strange grasp of democracy George.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Indeed, and it's perfectly reasonable for the English to wish them god speed in their endeavours.

‘The English’? Or just those that prioritise Brexit over the Union?

 

[Chris in London]

From memory you were referring to Nationalists and not all Scots so the hard time you're getting seems a little OTT to me.

It seems probable that he’s not even referring to all nationalists either, just the anti-English ones. Alex Salmond was (is!) something of an Anglophile.

 

[carlosthejackal]

Just wondering if the HMRC report on the £15 billion extra cost per year in admin costs to business is part of project fear ? That’s before any tariffs are added .

 

[Saddleworth2]

As a Flemming within Belgium my perception is that the Scots are simply uhappy that they conspiciously appear "2nd priority at best". Consider that there are plenty of types of "unions of states" in the form of confederacy's and federations where members would have a veto, and it appears to me that if Scots had that veto there wouldn't even be a Brexit. In the end it's about wether Scotland is an equal member of the union to their wishes or just a part of a larger country here they represent a minority. One could atleast argue that if the UK was made of equal parts that the referendum should have passed in all 4 country's of the union first. With Brexit the interrests of England seem to be taken over that of Scotland, atleast from the pov of many scots apparently.

It is quite obvious that Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are subservient to England based on the populations of the U.K. and the number of politicians sent to Westminster. I’m not saying that’s wrong or right, simply that insufficient thought was given to the construct of the referendum and the tensions to the Union that differing results might bring.

 

[Len Rum]

The same with companies all over the world trading internationally or even locally.

You do know that if a manchester company wants to sell goods in Manchester it has to apply with laws and regulations in Manchester and there are checks through trading standards , laws and industry watchdogs, Societies , Hmrc, ombudsman and others to make sure they do.

You do know that international contracts can specify the law which governs that contract? . you do know that for example an American company trading with an Australian company may choose English courts to resolve a dispute in the contract. There is a jurisdiction clause in the boiler plate section of most contracts Len. Why do you think we have loads of lawyers in London? They are not advising on uk divorces or domestic matter, most of the magic and silver circle are advising international companies all over the world on contracts and disputes globally out of their London office and if it’s a dispute often through the London court.

Even if the contract does not specify courts can determine whether they have jurisdiction.

The English courts every single day determine commercial disputes between companies which aren’t even in the eu.

I am not suggesting it’s going to be easier out of the eu to trade within the eu , but the way you go on about you would think there s a huge wall around the eu and the only goods and services that happen are those within the eu. Goods and services flow into and out of the eu every second of everyday, have done since the eu was formed and will continue to do so.

It's all about customs,borders,delays,paperwork,tariff and non tariff barriers which will make trade with the EU more difficult than now. This will cause additional costs and cause delay and make UK companies less competitive.
Service industries will also suffer as the EU has done a lot to make this sector more open across EU borders.
Nobody is saying all trade with EU will cease, just that there will inevitably be a reduction (which will not be made up with far off countries, distance still matters in trade).
Your post fails to address any of these issues.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

‘The English’? Or just those that prioritise Brexit over the Union?

No, the English.
What's happening here is that remainers have, as a significant group, Scottish Nationalists on their side.
This then puts them in a quandary, they abhor nationalism, but don't like nasty slurs against nationalists.
Brexit, hey?

 

[blueinsa]

It is quite obvious that Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are subservient to England based on the populations of the U.K. and the number of politicians sent to Westminster. I’m not saying that’s wrong or right, simply that insufficient thought was given to the construct of the referendum and the tensions to the Union that differing results might bring.

Rubbish.

More MP's per head of population, more spent per head of population and even your own parliament that English and Welsh MP's have no say in whilst the SNP can and often does stick its nose into the lives of millions it doesn't represent nor is accountable to.

Chips on shoulders!

 

[FlemishDuck]

It is quite obvious that Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are subservient to England based on the populations of the U.K. and the number of politicians sent to Westminster.

Yeah, i think it won't last, realisticly at some point the rest wil have to be made equal partners or the Union won't survive imho. Just my perception as a Flemming drawn from a background where we struggled for decades to have an equal say in Belgium. Granted Scotland is somewhat different, a distinct point is that Scottish Gaelic is not the common tongue in Scotland anymore afaik.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Live and work in Scotland and have done for the last 8 years.

Majority are fantastic people, welcoming and much like the majority dont discuss independance or brexit.

Unfortunately there is a group that always will and their anti English rhetoric pours from them.

I refer to those as the bitter fuckers with huge chips on their shoulders and they are best exemplified by their representatives in Westminster.

Nasty little Nationalists and remainers to boot.

Imagine that?

Little Scotlanders.

 

[Saddleworth2]

No, the English.
What's happening here is that remainers have, as a significant group, Scottish Nationalists on their side.
This then puts them in a quandary, they abhor nationalism, but don't like nasty slurs against nationalists.
Brexit, hey?

Let me just check my understanding:
English Brexiteers 100% want Scotland out of the Union because ummm... they won and these pesky nats are standing in the way
English Remainers 100% want Scotland out of the Union because ummm... they abhor nationalism? Or don’t like nasty slurs against the nats?

Ok got it.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

It is quite obvious that Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are subservient to England based on the populations of the U.K. and the number of politicians sent to Westminster. I’m not saying that’s wrong or right, simply that insufficient thought was given to the construct of the referendum and the tensions to the Union that differing results might bring.

They won't have forgotten Cameron's deceit around the IndyRef either. He promised them (all the main parties did) extra stuff in the day or two before the vote, and then stood up the day after the referendum and announced ways they would limit Scottish input (reverse West Lothian type stuff).

 

[George Hannah]

You have a strange grasp of democracy George.

I would've put it exactly the other way around. I repeat, none of them have a majority democratic mandate to pursue their primary objective as a separatist party. To compound this fundamental disconnect most have clearly abandoned even the faintest pretence of fulfilling the Westminster MP's role to represent all their constituents. A veritable infestation of rancorous parasites bent on degrading our democratic processes.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Rubbish.

More MP's per head of population, more spent per head of population and even your own parliament that English and Welsh MP's have no say in whilst the SNP can and often does stick its nose into the lives of millions it doesn't represent nor is accountable to.

Chips on shoulders!

In Westminster, last time I looked, the number of English MPs outnumbered the other countries. What part of that is rubbish?

 

[Saddleworth2]

I would of put it exactly the other way around. I repeat, none of them have a majority democratic mandate to pursue their primary objective as a separatist party. To compound this fundamental disconnect most have clearly abandoned even the faintest pretence of fulfilling the Westminster MP's role to represent all their constituents. A veritable infestation of rancorous parasites bent on degrading our democratic processes.

And yet they keep getting voted for. How undemocratic is that? And George, your last sentence perfectly describes the current conservative PM and government a lot more closely than it does the Westminster SNP.

 

[blueinsa]

In Westminster, last time I looked, the number of English MPs outnumbered the other countries. What part of that is rubbish?

Per head of population......

You're the one crying how subservient you are.

I'm telling you its complete fucking rubbish.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Yeah, i think it won't last, realisticly at some point the rest wil have to be made equal partners or the Union won't survive imho. Just my perception as a Flemming drawn from a background where we struggled for decades to have an equal say in Belgium. Granted Scotland is somewhat different, a distinct point is that Scottish Gaelic is not the common tongue in Scotland anymore afaik.

Federations/alliances will fail if one single block is seen to inflict their views on others, rather than talking them into it and considering their view.
I'm pretty certain that the SNP don't think that May and Johnson (let alone the ERGers) have considered them.