Another new Brexit thread

[blueinsa]

Oh dear dear. Have a good one mate.

Who represents the over a million Scottish leave voters?

It isn't the SNP or those who say "Scotland voted to leave"

 

[George Hannah]

And the number of Scottish mps in Parliament (which governs the U.K.) is subservient to the number of English mps. Fact. That is the end of the matter until Scotland determines through a democratic vote wether it wishes to remain in the U.K.

They have their correctly alloted share of parliamentary seats according to the population of the whole country. Calling that demographic equality subservience is simply hollow rhetoric.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Btw, the U.K. is not a country.

It is.

 

[FlemishDuck]

No Gaelic is not commonly spoken but it is alive and well in the Islands and some areas of the Highlands.

In the historic struggle for Flemmish autonomy in Belgium one important facet was the "languaghe conflict", there was a time where practicly all university's in Flanders gave their classes solely in French, as the Flemmish movement gained momentum it succeeded in forcing Flemmish univeristy's to teach in flemmish/dutch. This sort of conflict also played out in territorial terms with Brussels as a hotpoint. It's known that the Wallonians had formulated the idea in the 19th century to "latinise" Flanders, a proces that partly reversed during periods of German occuptation as they sought to "germanise" the poppulation. For the Flemmish these attempts at forced assimilation were seen as somewhat opressive and undesired.

I presume univeristy's all over the UK teach in English? Is there much attention given to teaching other language's present in the Union? Language assimilation in the Uk seems to progress more natural or withought much opposition?

 

[George Hannah]

Btw, the U.K. is not a country.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK)[15] or Britain,[note 11] is a sovereign country located off the north-western coast of the European mainland. Better tell Wiki, then the rest of the world.

 

[west didsblue]

Who represents the over a million Scottish leave voters?

It isn't the SNP or those who say "Scotland voted to leave"

And who represents the 16.1 million Remain voters? Certainly not the current Tory government who are hell bent on achieving the most destructive Brexit possible for their own personal gains.

 

[Saddleworth2]

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK)[15] or Britain,[note 11] is a sovereign country located off the north-western coast of the European mainland. Better tell Wiki, then the rest of the world.

Ok you are of course correct on that one. Apologies.

 

[blueinsa]

And who represents the 16.1 million Remain voters? Certainly not the current Tory government who are hell bent on achieving the most destructive Brexit possible for their own personal gains.

Far more remain MP's and parties ie the Lib Dems than those Scots.

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish are subservient to the English?

That's not directed at you btw.

 

[mcfc1632]

Those that do nothing but spout their anti English diatribe know exactly what I think.

Bitter fuckers with huge chips on both shoulders.

Thankfully there are also a lot that are not so 'dyed in the wool' anti-English

When it comes to it, of course if we have already left the EU, there will be a 2nd referendum a few years later and Scotland in all likelihood will opt to remain in the UK. After that the SNP may well struggle as a lot of the inspection of the Scottish electorate starts to focus on their performance on key domestic policies.

The SNP know this and are - not surprisingly - desperately keen for Brexit to be stopped and have a 2nd referendum before the UK can leave the EU - otherwise they are basically a bit fucked.

They will use Brexit being stopped as the launchpad for an indyref2 - there message will be - see what nearly happened...…??

It will be impossible for them to put forward a winning argument if the UK has already left

 

[FlemishDuck]

It will be impossible for them to put forward a winning argument if the UK has already left

Not if Brexit hurts Scotland a lot i immagine? Yesterday ive seen a very worried British parliament over being slapped large tarrifs by the USA trough the WTO on such things (among others) like single malt Scotch. So let me get this strait, this iconic Scottish dring is going to likely loose a lot of it's market share in the USA and other traders outside the EU, and if the UK exits the EU withought a good trade deal they are going to loose lots of marketshare in the EU too. One would have reason to think that Scotland could be particulary hurt?

 

[mcfc1632]

There seems to be a fair amount of anti Scots rhetoric on this thread at the moment. I suppose they are an easy target as they overwhelmingly rejected leaving the EU and then their MP’s (all democratically elected) have the temerity to try and represent the best interests of their constituents. It’s a great shame as those that are attacking the Scots are simply showing where their priorities lie, England and Brexit as a priority over the Union. Calling out the Scots does seem a touch ironic.

It is not anti-Scots rhetoric at all. Surprised you stoop to the tactics of others on here that have a need to suggest that discussion on the subject of Scotland's continued place in the Union equates to the English wanting Scotland out.

Such tactics are just distraction and deliberately argumentative - in the absence of being able to discuss/debate probably. I am going to continue to assume that you are better than that

In the main it is opening up the discussion as to what will happen if there is an indyref2 and the timing of that (i.e. before or after the UK has left the EU). If the UK in still is the EU - likely a 'YES' vote - if not then it will be almost certainly a 'NO' vote.

This has a lot of significance on the subject of Brexit.

Anyway, we hear so much in support of Scottish and Irish nationalism is not a bit of balance welcomed.

We hear so much about the border issues between Ireland and the UK - is it not good to consider the issues that a indyref2 vote to Leave would present?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I presume univeristy's all over the UK teach in English? Is there much attention given to teaching other language's present in the Union? Language assimilation in the Uk seems to progress more natural or withought much opposition?

Almost none. Schools in some parts of Wales teach Welsh, I know that, possibly from a Welsh Assembly directive (don't know for sure). I think Welsh/Gaelic type languages are taught for curio/heritage reasons, rather than because they are are useful.

No University would teach in something that's not English, it would be suicidal.

 

[west didsblue]

Not if Brexit hurts Scotland a lot i immagine? Yesterday ive seen a very worried British parliament over being slapped large tarrifs by the USA trough the WTO on such things (among others) like single malt Scotch. So let me get this strait, this iconic Scottish dring is going to likely loose a lot of it's market share in the USA and other traders outside the EU, and if the UK exits the EU withought a good trade deal they are going to loose lots of marketshare in the EU too. One would have reason to think that Scotland could be particulary hurt?

Another reason why the argument that a majority of Scots won't want independence after Brexit is absolute nonsense. I would say it's absolutely nailed on, especially in the event of No Deal.

 

[blueinsa]

Another reason why the argument that a majority of Scots won't want independence after Brexit is absolute nonsense. I would say it's absolutely nailed on, especially in the event of No Deal.

You dismiss the strength of Unionism up here.

The SNP make the same mistake. Sure people will vote SNP for Holyrood and Westminster but there is no appetite for independence on the whole and over 1 million Scots voting for brexit shows that.

 

[mcfc1632]

Hard times and these threads go hand in hand but yes, only nationalists mate.

The Remainers keenness not to discuss a 'dose of reality' i.e. that ~ Scotland will very likely vote NO if the UK has left the EU - is probably driven by their 'baseless repetition' for 3 years that Brexit will lead to Scotland seceding.

Having to face up to the 100s of inaccurate post they have made is a place they will not want to go.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Another reason why the argument that a majority of Scots won't want independence after Brexit is absolute nonsense. I would say it's absolutely nailed on, especially in the event of No Deal.

It'll be down to the economy and whether there is anything left of it, and also who is in government and whether they show any concern for Scotland. There will be plenty whose 'nationalism' can be pandered too/exploited by a McFarage, and will vote for independence whether it makes sense or not, simply as a protest vote against the government.

I think it's too soon to tell, and largely irrelevant right now.

 

[blueparrot]

You dismiss the strength of Unionism up here.

The SNP make the same mistake. Sure people will vote SNP for Holyrood and Westminster but there is no appetite for independence on the whole and over 1 million Scots voting for brexit shows that.

I wouldn't say no appetite in the event of a No deal Brexit.
http://whatscotlandthinks.org/quest...independence-referendum-in-the-event-of#table

 

[west didsblue]

You dismiss the strength of Unionism up here.

The SNP make the same mistake. Sure people will vote SNP for Holyrood and Westminster but there is no appetite for independence on the whole and over 1 million Scots voting for brexit shows that.

I agree there is no appetite for independence with the UK as part of the EU. With the UK outside the EU against the wishes of 62% of the population of Scotland, there could easily be a swing of 5% towards independence which is all that would be needed.

 

[yerwot?]

You have a strange grasp of democracy George.

That's one way of describing bigotry, but then "democracy" is like an adjustable spanner in the tool-box of the brexit die-hards. The sustained assault on the EU leading to the "kangaroo" referendum and continually calling it "democratic" leaves nothing more to be said, they know as well as everybody else, that the lies and the naked racism of the tory media in the run-up was the most anti-democratic manipulation of the public in the grubby history of political shenanigans. A re-run of the referendum, now that the truth has been dragged into the public domain, would be a nod to democracy , and a test of "the will of the people" fig-leaf that brexits cling to. They know the same lies will not work again, the "easiest thing in the world, the bus slogan, the Turkish invasion, and every other fabrication, has been shown to be utter lies" designed to crush any hope of " a prosperity for all" outcome, and a jack-pot for the far-right fascists that bank-roll "operation stitch-up"... news flash, johnson and his attempted bribe is surely a suicide note to escape the self-inflicted dung-heap, no doubt defended by our tame brexits on here, as a noble patriotic act of a true....whatever...tory, yep a true tory . Say no more, guvnor.

 

[Chris in London]

Not if Brexit hurts Scotland a lot i immagine? Yesterday ive seen a very worried British parliament over being slapped large tarrifs by the USA trough the WTO on such things (among others) like single malt Scotch. So let me get this strait, this iconic Scottish dring is going to likely loose a lot of it's market share in the USA and other traders outside the EU, and if the UK exits the EU withought a good trade deal they are going to loose lots of marketshare in the EU too. One would have reason to think that Scotland could be particulary hurt?

Probably not, in this particular instance. Scotch can’t compete on price against US produced whiskies, its USP in America is quality. Those who choose Scotch in the USA are largely making a discerning choice for which they accept they will have to pay more. The majority of those who choose to pay more for (as they see it) a superior product will probably continue to do so, they will just grumble about it. There will undoubtedly be some impact, but talk of losing a lot of its market share is off the mark.

What is undoubtedly true is that we would be in a much stronger position to seek a reversal of that tariff as part of a block of 560m, and whilst that might not matter much in this instance it will have a much greater impact in other areas where UK products do compete on price in the US market.