Another new Brexit thread

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Saddleworth2 said:
I answered the point in such a simple way a child would understand. I’m certainly not doing it again.
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No you didn't.

You made a claim and couldn't back it up, especially when it was pointed out the imbalances in democracy in favour of the Scots compared to the rest of the population.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Did you mean to put "EU" there?

Scotland is not a separate entity. It'd be the same as those in London saying "London is being taken out of the EU against it's will. The "will" of Scotland is connected to the will of the other parts of the Union. Refering to Scotland as a separate entity would be no different to me talking about England all the time, and I assure you, i'd be accused on here of being a "Little Englander" or "English Nationalist" for doing so.
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Yeah the EU.
Scotland is a separate country within the Uk and can be referred to as such. Particularly when the subject of conversation is er Scotland and it’s politics.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Yeah the EU.
Scotland is a separate country within the Uk and can be referred to as such. Particularly when the subject of conversation is er Scotland and it’s politics.
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But as it has been made very clear; we did not vote as separate countries of the UK Union, we voted as one nation, the United Kingdom and Gibraltar. This was approved by the majority of Parliament, a Parliament which SNP elected members regularly take up their seats.

In the referendum Scotland did NOT vote as a separate country. It wasn't like the terms of the IndyRef. "Scotland" isn't being "dragged out against 'its' will", it is leaving in accordance to the rest of the Union of which Scotland is a part.

How about the 1m Scots who voted to leave the EU. Surely then you'd be forcing them to remain in a unino with Europe they want to leave? Why no concern for their opinions, or are they not true Scotsmen?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
‘The English’? Or just those that prioritise Brexit over the Union?
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Well it should be 'all the English' and we should be wishing them all the very best with whatever democratic decision that they wish to make.

Self-determination should be the right of any 'country' - personally I hope that they stay in the UK, but there is a major flaw in your statement.

There is more chance of then leaving the UK if we do not Brexit - you have it the wrong may around.
 
blueinsa said:
Hang on Bob.

You tell us this is what will happen, Merkel confirms it and then you say she didnt?

Backstop was a trap and was always Dublins and the EU's plan to effectively annex Northern Ireland.

Not interested in a deal and they couldnt give a rats arse about the GFA either.
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blueinsa said:
No you didn't.

You made a claim and couldn't back it up, especially when it was pointed out the imbalances in democracy in favour of the Scots compared to the rest of the population.
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I don’t have to back up a fact that English mps outnumber those of the other countries of the uk in Westminster. That is the only and single point I made because it pertains to Brexit. You widened the scope of the discussion by bringing in scottish parliament which is totally irrelevant to the post I was making.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
What baffles me in all this is the emphasis on the Belfast agreement. Whenever anyone claims you can’t do something because it breaks the Belfast agreement what they are really doing is making a tacit threat of terrorism.
Why this has been allowed to colour the negotiations is beyond me.
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Because it suits Dublin, Brussels and the Republican movements attempts to basically annex Northern Ireland to Dublin rule.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It is quite obvious that Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are subservient to England based on the populations of the U.K. and the number of politicians sent to Westminster. I’m not saying that’s wrong or right, simply that insufficient thought was given to the construct of the referendum and the tensions to the Union that differing results might bring.
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That is a strange POV - Dumfries & Galloway is subservient to the SG.

Can't see your point - It was a UK wide referendum - everybody knew that.

Scotland has representation at Westminster commensurate to the population size and rules that determine constituency boundaries
 
mcfc1632 said:
That is a strange POV - Dumfries & Galloway is subservient to the SG.
Can't see your point - it was a UK wide referendum - everybody knew that. Scotland has representation at Westminster commensurate to the population size and rules that determine constituency boundaries
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If a thing's worth saying it's worth saying twice.....lol
(or 20 times if necessary!)
 
blueinsa said:
Because it suits Dublin, Brussels and the Republican movements attempts to basically annex Northern Ireland to Dublin rule.
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Ther is no annexing in May's EU agreed deal, nor would there be in a Norway plus deal. The issue is an issue entirely down to Tory / DUP and ERG red lines.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I don’t have to back up a fact that English mps outnumber those of the other countries of the uk in Westminster. That is the only and single point I made because it pertains to Brexit. You widened the scope of the discussion by bringing in scottish parliament which is totally irrelevant to the post I was making.
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Per head of population Scotland has more MP's.

What do you want, the exact same number of MP's representing over 4 million people as there is to represent over 60 million?

You have devolved government with legislative powers and no say from any English.

You have MP's in westminster that have a say in English only matters and you get more funding per head than anyone else.

Subservient my arse.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
No, the English.
What's happening here is that remainers have, as a significant group, Scottish Nationalists on their side.
This then puts them in a quandary, they abhor nationalism, but don't like nasty slurs against nationalists.
Brexit, hey?
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Respectfully, I suggest that you need to remember......

Scottish and Irish nationalism = Good and to be admired

Any consideration of the interests of the English (a far cry from nationalism) = Bad and to be deplored
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
King James I united the kingdoms, but not the Parliaments. When England had it's revolution, the "Divine Right of Kings to Rule" was abolished, so the monarchy had no claim to power. England became a constitutional monarchy and that changed again in 1707 with the Act of Union, something nobody in either country wanted, but Scotland was kneedeep in debt (don't ask how...) and needed the English to help them out a smidge and as a compromise they combined their Parliaments but the English insisted that Parliament be held at the Palace of Westminster.

If you're wondering where Wales fits into all this, back when the Union was formed, Wales was just regarded as part of England, like Lancashire or Yorkshire, which is why there's no feature on the Union Jack to represent Wales; technically Wales are 'represented' by the St George's Cross.
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Yes, and i think there is a point also to mention that Scottish parliament came back into existance so to speak around 1997 trough a referendum?
I have to say, if the UK is "not nessecarily what it's name specificly suggests, but more like a contemporary practicle arrangement of power between distinct parts", that the trend shows Scotland is kinda redifing the UK somewhat in modern terms and it flows from the fact that the Union can only so much ignore the specific self deterministic wishes from Scotland?
 
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