Another new Brexit thread

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mancity2012_eamo said:
Haven't seen the detail of what is supposedly now being offered, but my immediate response to all the hoo-haa was, have the DUP supported this?

Because with double-majority within the assembly, I can't see the DUP going for a border down the Irish Sea, for the exact same reasons they went for it with the veto in the first offer.

On the face of it, it looks logical, but I believe the only mechanism that is already agreed (GFA) for the time limit release on the backstop, is a referendum of the people of Northern Ireland.
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The double majority within the assembly is never going to fly or ever come about.

Id have no issue in the people of NI deciding by a referendum though.

The decision should be for them and not a few crackpots in Sinn Fein or the DUP.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Well yes, and if it were to lead to Scotland and NI leaving the UK (don't see it myself), it would basically be because they would have seen the benefits of staying in a larger bloc or union, but hadn't the numbers to influence the smaller domestic union into staying, because the largest bloc in it holds sway.
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I really don't think I have seen any Leave posters on here suggest that Wales, Scotland & N. I. Should not have the right is self-determination - but why should that immediately mean England cannot enjoy the same rights.

But..... We have not gone alone - we committed to abide by a UK wide referendum.

Sounds pretty fair to me

If - after we actually leave the EU - and they decide they want to break from the UK and rejoin the EU - England will not stand in the way.

Spoiler :- Wales and Scotland will stay with the UK
 
blueinsa said:
For a minority it was for as they thought it wasn't acceptable which i agreed with at the time.

For the majority it was about stopping brexit altogether and for party political motive.

Again though the question was has "parliament" respected the result and promise to enact by leaving the EU and the answer as far as I am concerned is a resounding no.

How many of the Tory rebels like Grieve and Soubry etc voted for the WA? What was/is their motive?
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So it was the correct decision to vote down the WA and you agreed with it at the time?
 
blueinsa said:
For a minority it was for as they thought it wasn't acceptable which i agreed with at the time.

For the majority it was about stopping brexit altogether and for party political motive.

Again though the question was has "parliament" respected the result and promise to enact by leaving the EU and the answer as far as I am concerned is a resounding no.

How many of the Tory rebels like Grieve and Soubry etc voted for the WA? What was/is their motive?
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Whatever it is, if these 2 lose their seats in the next election, it will be a very good day.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Andrew Neil's quote uses a troublemaking translation, that has clearly been picked up and copied across hackdom.
What Juncker said better translates to 'decline of the UK', not 'collapse'. However if you drop the section from the French website into Google Translate, it will say 'collapse' and hey presto, misrepresentation.Also excised was that the rest of the sentence talked of ".. and a weakening of growth shoots across Europe". He absolutely wasn't talking about the UK alone disintegrating.
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BobKowalski said:
Ah just saw

DUP already rejecting latest offer from EU. Sammy Wilson, DUP Brexit spokesman:

'It will go nowhere. The Govt in Westminster will not accept it, we will not accept it,'I don't think anyone who looks at it with any kind of objectivity at all will say it's an improved offer'
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As I predicted.
When the first offer last week came out, I asked the question, if the default position was to stay aligned to the EU/Ireland, would the DUP accept the deal as readily.
No they wouldn't because it was basically a trap of giving them a guarantee that Northern Ireland would stay in the UK.

This offer seems to me to apply GFA negotiated rules to the assembly and they don't like it.

The only way I can see of getting in or out of a time limited backstop, is a referendum in NI which is within the GFA.


Still catching up and haven't read the full details, so I'll reserve final judgement.
 
BobKowalski said:
So it was the correct decision to vote down the WA and you agreed with it at the time?
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First time, yes I did.

Not by the third go though I didn't and it got beat every time with the exact same people voting against in all 3 votes.

Funnily enough the only ones to move where the hard right ERG in some number who you want to blame solely in this.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Whatever it is, if these 2 lose their seats in the next election, it will be a very good day.
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Grieve being given a free run by his remain chums apparently although i fear the Tories and Brexit party wont be so kind.

Same for the others as well.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I think your use of the infantile "simple as" actually sums this whole debacle up.
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Almost as "simple as" just revoking and letting a few old men with red faces howl at the moon then?

I know you from old Dave and we have always got on and been on the same side in many an argument so I know full well your tactic of playing the man rather than the ball.

It sadly isn't going to work on this though and hasn't done for remain since day one.
 
Chippy_boy said:
No, I am sorry, when MPs voted against May's deal they did so knowing full well that the public had mandated that we leave, and that the A50 2-year process was enacted by parliament with a huge majority.

To vote against May's deal was to ignore the mandate.

ignore
/ɪɡˈnɔː/
Learn to pronounce
verb
refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally.​

If you want to play with semantics and to say instead of "ignore" it was "chose to disregard" then you can try. But to most people, that means "ignore".
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It's a technicality but Parliament did not enact nor vote to trigger Article 50. Parliament authorised the PM to do it.
 
blueinsa said:
First time, yes I did.

Not by the third go though I didn't and it got beat every time with the exact same people voting against in all 3 votes.

Funnily enough the only ones to move where the hard right ERG in some number who you want to blame solely in this.
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But you accept that ERG Tories and DUP were as responsible as anyone for the failure of the WA to pass and they and the Brexit Party still think that voting it down was the correct decision? It therefore follows that failing to pass the WA was as much a pro Brexit decision as anything else and that Brexiteers rounding on Parliament for not getting Brexit done is somewhat bizarre given Parliament has had only one Withdrawal Agreement to pass judgement on and that Agreement was deemed not for for purpose by most Brexiteers.
 
This is the sort of analysis and deep thought we need to bring to the Brexit debate

Labour MP Caroline Flint: ‘Just get it done, I haven’t a clue how to resolve the Irish border issue, but just get it done.’

You’ve had three years to think of a solution but thanks for your contribution.
 
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